How vertical 6013 ac

[olek]

Is christmas tree better than zig zag?

really cannot say but first one need to master zignzage or U shape (I think small zig zag to make the first pass (as said above you may 'read' the puddle), a root, then a larger zig zag but it is really easier to make U's, my opinion, I hope
more experienced welder can shim in.
to read the puddle is to look at the dark line behind, and the bright sides too, so to see where the weld is going exactly, despite much intelluctual thinking and looking at beginners videos again and again, it is a sort of feeling morere than a very precise technical thing, I think.

having a very good view is really important, and, at some point, you begin to look from farther as you recognize the global shapes and how the heat evolves. Best luck.

may be looking at the same videos of basics again and again helps, in the end, because when you weld you begin to see the same thing or at least that is the goal. So it helps, when you see the same than in the video, your heat is good, your gesture too...

when progressing I am looking at the same video and I see more details when I am more experienced, this is amazing, with time and hours of welding exercices you can understand more what is going on in the video, that helps a lot when you will be welding (in case you have no teacher, as is my case)

 

[olek]

Learning to read the puddle and washing the sides in is the thing too do. The middle takes care of its self. It's easier said than done though. Good rod position, a tight arc and the right settings all help get a good weld.

Yes that is what is generally said, and it is true. ("washing the sides" . I like the expression

also, "the weld follows the heat" I think it is true, we are pulling the weld while putting more, is not it ?

the triangle, or christmas tree, is possibly just a mean to avoid the 2 passes welding in a corner, a gain of time, but also the pause in the bottom of the angle is probably advantageous in terms of good penetration.
I was very happy to obtain a decent bead, as I did read it is a difficult process.

 

[Memmeddu]

I think that i miss understend you.
So this tecnic is good only for a couple o passes?
Or it is just to say? Modo di dire (i don't know if you are understend me or not)

Sorry but my english is passable but not perfect or simple to understend

 

[olek]

I think it is better not to try triangle with 6013 you will have a lot of slag falling l think some can get trapped . plus it is really not easy.
zig zag or u are more easy to obtain. I cannot say for sure but to me you will need two passes, with 3,2 mm rods one with small zig zag then one above, larger. If you are not yet used to go up in corners you may want to do some training before doing the real weld.
But corners vertical are not the most difficult I think. you can use the 'walls' to stay consistent the only thing is to have a clear view or it is easy to go more on one side than the other.

as said by monkeh, you "wash"the sides, with the slag, the weld you put there also fall, a little it fall to the center but is stopped by the precedent leg so the bead raise , in the end.

once it flows you go to the other side.

 

[Memmeddu]

Ok so i go on zig zag way

 

[olek]

hello, look at that one :

to progress one need 'welding time' that is, burning enough rods

the cruciform shape as shown here is just the perfect exercice, as you can do one corner flat, one vertical, one horizontal, (one over head ),
you have to 'sacrifice' a good number of 3,2 rods to do so, but you are obliged to learn something during the 16-20 hours it takes to fulfill the cruciform.

I am not sure it is the best option to focus on vertical up immediately, that is what I did, and I had to go 'back' to flat then horizontal, then vertical up , at some point in time.

but I had vision difficulties may be it is not your case (I have progressive glasses, the best solution then is to weld with a fixed shade mask

 

[Memmeddu]

That is a corner welding on a fishing instrument, a rake
Anyway it's a 6x30 iron plate, whit some sharpened 8mm iron rods.
I have replace one of this tips, whit a 8 mm zinched iron rod.
On a side it's good (i think) Other side not bad, because at right side i was in a good position on left side i wasn't in a confortable position.
Other weldings are like a..... , we understend.

After this repair, i tryed for a vertical welding but i made only 1 cm good other 2 cm are as porositi welding.

 

[olek]

No sure I understand where is the iron piece.

BTW where I buy my rods, the 7018 from Lincoln are cheaper than the 6013 (and they are H4R, R mean better résistance to moisture than 'standard' 7018.

<I think today anyway most 7018 from well known brands are 'moisture resistant' (probably)

 

[Kent]

My friend talk me about vertical down for 6013, but the welding is like zig zag line.
So i try whit the vertical up but the coating cover all and is not good to see.
And is also not penetrated in the steel.
This are the parameter of my welder
L1 220/380V max 40 amp
L2 50V 200A

I was using 2,5 mm 6013 stick rod at 140A on 8 mm steel plate.

Yesterday i joint a 20mm pipe section bike holder,
I point it in all positions vertical, on top and over head.
But i don't made welding cords, i made many little points that cover all the broken area.

So how make a good vertical welding whit 6013 rods?

Thank you all and another time Sorry for my english

I suspect you pulled the rod up the vertical - don't! Push it, almost square on with just enough angle of incline to allow the arc to push.

 

[olek]

Plus, a short arc, well 'tense', with 6013, the arc is the size of the weld, that is how you can see well and have the weld really efficient. Too large arc the gas protection is inefficient hence porosities.
It is a small cone.
A too large angle make the same effect. It is said 80 degree is ideal for vertical up, but it can be less.

PS with, 50V current I am not sure you can use 7018.

 

[Sarto]

I tried 7018 with my father's AC buzz box. No luck , they won't burn at all.
Keep using the 6013 and you will be happy.

SARTo

 

[Memmeddu]

No no i allways push the electrode, because i see that i get better results than don't push

 

[Memmeddu]

Finally i can show you something, today i burned some welding rods, and this is the result.
I used 2.5mm 6013 sticks and 70-80A
I tryed different speeds and rod positions.
Ps only one of this is a flat welding (was a test to have a refer of speed and strikes)

 

[Memmeddu]

I see that it's possibile have a good penetration also using "low" amps.
The plate of steel that i weld was thick about 10 12 mm.
If you push the electrode, it sink into the metal very fast.
I didn't think that this was possible

 

[olek]

Corners up are easier than flat. Anyway one need to burn a lot of rods to gain control and consistency

It y ones fast, despite the stops right left.

Cut piece to see the penetration.

70-75 going up is not low with 2.5mm rods. Heat goes up so in the end the base is much hotter than at start. You may need to fasten or to use U's at some point (even better from the start and mounting one or both side to cool the weld when necessary.)

 

[Memmeddu]

They are the first vertical welding that i made.
I'm hope for better results.
How much they are bad?

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Modo di dire (i don't know if you are understend me or not)

I think we'd say "Flavour of the month", but don't apologise - your English is good enough to understand

No no i allways push the electrode, because i see that i get better results than don't push

Convention recommends push for MIG, pull for MMA [arc]. But whatever you find gives you the best results is the one to use

 

[olek]

I think we'd say "Flavour of the month", but don't apologise - your English is good enough to understand

I think we'd say "Flavour of the month", but don't apologise - your English is good enough to understand



Convention recommends push for MIG, pull for MMA [arc]. But whatever you find gives you the best results is the one to use

Convention recommends push for MIG, pull for MMA [arc]. But whatever you find gives you the best results is the one to use

I do not agree, there are reasons why pulling is mostly used ( for efficiency of gas protection, may be other reasons) with stick, only when welding up pushing is used, I think and even then it is a 10 degree angle or so

Pushing when welding flat may tend to create inclusions, but it may be possible for not too long.

 

[olek]

They are the first vertical welding that i made.
I'm hope for better results.
How much they are bad?

Not enough to see well and not brushed but they seem to be too thick do may be a too strong angle, or not hot enough. With ac welder probably more than 70-75A are needed anyway the amps regulation is not precise then and depend on the machine, the lenght of electrical cord, the quality of the electrical outlet circuitry in the wall, (16A or 20A?).
If you have a 32A electrical outlet (as for cooking oven ) use it.

 

[Memmeddu]

Welding current was 80A
Angle was very soon to be 90 degres
For the distance i tryed some ones
And i see that it's better not more pushed but little bit pulled on.
For the amps i miss understend, so i can't give an answer.