insulated panels

[ukracer]

Is there a manufactures data sheet that gives the R value of the different thicknesses?

3.25 and 4.30.
75mm and 100mm respectively.
Sadly that means nothing to me even though I have figures in terms of how much money would "potentally" save using the thicker sheets.

I am swayed by the fact its going to be held up at each end with cls running along the wall and in the middle attached to the beam. Therefore I really need it not to sag over 2 metres.

(I think I M trying to talk myself into paying extra for heat and reducing sag.

 

[ukracer]

Assuming the same material for each it’s directly proportional to the thickness. 100mm is going to be 33% better than 75mm. Which is almost exactly reflected in the price you quoted.
But unless you insulate the roof members themselves you will get cold bridges and condensation. If you’re going to the trouble of removing the existing roof sheets, you might as well remove the rafters and replace with timber, put a lightweight tiled roof on (like plastic slates) and then stick some kingspan underneath the lot (assuming of course that whatever holds the existing roof up at the moment is man enough to hold up the replacement - might not be the case if it’s a uPVC structure).

The insulation.panels will not be touching the roof. There will be an air gap between the roof and I sulation.panels.
The existing roof is aluminium bearers with rubber sealed triple wall polycarbonate panels.

 

[Newlands]

You’re still going to get condensation problems.
Is it a mono pitch roof, with a big softwood support midway? Very difficult to see from the photos. The supports holding the polycarbonate panels look more like glazing bars to me rather than anything structural - what size are they?
if it is a mono pitch, it’s a no-brainer - cut a load of new rafters, fix a new wall plate (with joist hangers pre-fitted) to the house wall with resin fixings and put a proper roof on it.

 

[ukracer]

Yes it's a mono pitched foof 6 metres x 5 metres. It's been up 32 years and the condensation has been tolerable. But I do have a dehumidifier if needed.

I do appreciate putting a proper roof on it is the best way to go....BUT that would easily be upwards of 10k let alone the mess it would make and the room is full......in the process of decluttering.

I also think a proper roof would require planning. I was told the room was 5 inches below the size that required planning and it had to be polycarbonate for a similar reason.

Anyway...back to what I can afford. Lol
It's a simple equation cost versus benefit.
I.e is an extra 100 quid going to recoup that and more over time.
Is the extra 25mm going to be that much warmer.

I have some old kingspan that I just offered up and it does not look out of place. And it does not seem like it would bend/sag at 75mm or 100mm.

Finally there indeed glazing bars and they look like 3 inch.
I have walked on them for the past 32 years but would not like to load them up with a real roof and then do it.. lol

 

[ukracer]

Ok I have been trying to establish the best way forward under the government imposed cost cap.

Looks like 75mm kingspan is my best option. But moving 8 x 4 sheets in this weather has proved daunting.
Also the fact I need a dozen of the hollow soffit board at 5 metres long.

Without seeing it I am not sure of the minimum diameter it will roll into for transport.

If my son can finish work early enough I can get it in his van but the damn suppliers of soffit board only open to 1600hrs and kingspan suppliers till 16.30.

If the weather plays ball I have had a brain wave right under my nose. I must go and measure the car trailer.

 

[ukracer]

Car trailer did the job.

So cracked on yesterday.

 

[ukracer]

Half done. (Nearly) lol

 

[knighty]

looks good :-)

 

[ukracer]

looks good :-)

Well it did.
But I now know why I was told to put a proper roof on.

This was a non starter due to the cost and logistics so I went with Pir foam

Sadly the cold weather has identified an issue as I watched with despair what looked like a rodent in the roof space destroying the foam and it dropping down.........(well that's all I could think of as I walked towards it. Anyway it transpires that it was dripping water off the center beam.


I am gutted my work and the money I put into this looks to have proved futile.

 

[gaz1]

why do you think i told you to seal between the upvc beams and windows

but you have taken that many short cuts bridged over the upvc beam to create a window

the false ceiling method was fine to a degree but you still have to seal up around to stop any air getting through to those panels

 

[ukracer]

why do you think i told you to seal between the upvc beams and windows

I havent got any UPVC beams.

but you have taken that many short cuts bridged over the upvc beam to create a window

I don't follow that?? Not sure what means.?

the false ceiling method was fine to a degree but you still have to seal up around to stop any air getting through to those panels

Sealing as in sealed to the room itself?

 

[ukracer]

What short cuts have I taken??

 

[gaz1]

yes every part of it must be sealed no heat should get near or above those panels including the window area

as goes for bridging you put a window inbetween 2 panels that meant you bridged over the upvc beam also makes it harder to seal up

you adapted to a false ceiling due to someone telling you so instead of doing it by upvc beams as you can seal to each one you can do it by 2 but you still needed to seal them

at each joint and also the edged no heat should get anywhere above the insulation the window point being the worst area and the most difficult to seal but it can be double glased sealed if you had of gone from beam to upvc beam
then inserted the diffuser also sealed to the room

 

[ukracer]

But unless you insulate the roof members themselves you will get cold bridges and condensation.

I am.not sure what you mean by this but Gaz1 has tried to explain to me but I am so dense I simply can't understand what he is trying to tell me.

 

[m_c]

Because the centre beam is still attached to the outside (aka the cold side), it creates a cold 'bridge' past the insulation, so although you now have insulation under the clear panels, as the beam is still 'cold', you'll still get condensation on it.

 

[ukracer]

yes every part of it must be sealed no heat should get near or above those panels including the window area

Sorry for being dense. I think you are saying the whole room needs to be air sealed . Including the holes in the insulation to let light through.
i think you are calling them windows. I thought they were skylights.
if its these then they are not finished yet. I am waiting on 3 more sheets of hollow sofit board. Eurocell are garbage. They update their website but still don't have any in stock.. the branch does not know who updates the website...lol

as goes for bridging you put a window inbetween 2 panels that meant you bridged over the upvc beam also makes it harder to

its reference to UPVC beam thats confusing me. I dont have UPVC beams. Just aluminium glazing bars.

i think you are saying the heat is going to go up through the rooflight/skylight /window?

seal up

you adapted to a false ceiling due to someone telling you so instead of doing it by upvc beams as you can seal to each one you can do it by 2 but you still needed to seal them

I didn't adapt to a false ceiling that what I intended all along. I thought that was what you were telling me to do... lol

I wasn't going to have roof lights till I saw yours lol. But don't actually understand how they are done.
I have used aluminium T pieces between the 8 x 4 panels and have got enough to finish the skylights with T piece ali all the way round.
Then I was going to make boxes with wood and filled with polycarbonate . Then pushed up into the gaps and sealed aganst the hollow soffit board.
Held up by screws in the T piece aluminium.

at each joint and also the edged no heat should get anywhere above the insulation the window point being the worst area and the most difficult to seal but it can be double glased sealed if you had of gone from beam to upvc beam
then inserted the diffuser also sealed to the room

I am unsure if you are saying I needed to seal across the 8 x 4 sheets of insulation with double glazed polycarbonate... And also create a sealed box with poly carbonate.

 

[ukracer]

Because the centre beam is still attached to the outside (aka the cold side), it creates a cold 'bridge' past the insulation, so although you now have insulation under the clear panels, as the beam is still 'cold', you'll still get condensation on it.

Ok might be getting the gist of it. But worried I can not solve the problem easily as the wood (center beam) is fixed to the aluminium.glazing bars.

 

[gaz1]

i think you are calling them windows. I thought they were skylights.
if its these then they are not finished yet. I am waiting on 3 more sheets of hollow sofit board. Eurocell are garbage. They update their website but still don't have any in stock.. the branch does not know who updates the website...lol

its reference to UPVC beam thats confusing me. I dont have UPVC beams. Just aluminium glazing bars.

i think you are saying the heat is going to go up through the rooflight/skylight /window?

I didn't adapt to a false ceiling that what I intended all along. I thought that was what you were telling me to do... lol

I wasn't going to have roof lights till I saw yours lol. But don't actually understand how they are done.
I have used aluminium T pieces between the 8 x 4 panels and have got enough to finish the skylights with T piece ali all the way round.
Then I was going to make boxes with wood and filled with polycarbonate . Then pushed up into the gaps and sealed aganst the hollow soffit board.
Held up by screws in the T piece aluminium.

I am unsure if you are saying I needed to seal across the 8 x 4 sheets of insulation with double glazed polycarbonate... And also create a sealed box with poly carbonate.

1 skylights windows same thing however i did spot that you bridged over the bar which is the most hardest thing to seal always seal to the bars the cross part needs to be sealed x2 but also insulated to the roof so no heat gets near the above from the skylight window

sealed with silicone from each side bar across the plastic panel to the other bar

the aluminium comes in plastic coated upvc bars as well these are what im stating yours looks like upvc coated window bars from the photos

yes any room air will go up the skylight hole thats why you need to create a double glazed area by using a defuser and seal that as well

roof lights are easy to do you have to remember to seal them well to keep the hot air from the room getting to the roof

every panel must be sealed with either silicone or tape so for joints tape them the t bars seal with silicone run a bead on the t bar to seal them and just slot the insulation onto them

boxes of wood or plastic for the skylight frame but wants sealing as well to the roof plastic with silicone as well as insulating above the insulation in the gap area otherwise heat can blead through the wood/plastic

 

[gaz1]

these pics will explain

always seal between frames as there the easiest way to seal


the worst way of which ive seen you do yours never go across the bars you lose light due to the bar but its the most ackwardest way to seal the skylight up

 

[gaz1]

mines same as @8ob the only difference he routed out his rebate into the wood whilst i didnt, i just screwed 1x1 wood pieces to the sides so i could put a few screws in the plastic to hold it up whilst i fixed the arcitrive on

then i stapled on the foiled wraped bubble wrap onto the wood surface which then bounces around any light or sunlight around the window area making the window area brighter its just a cheap way of reflecting the sun instead of using mirrors or mirrored coated steel

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