Land Rover MOT Failure Help

[eSCHEn]

The problematic part to the corrosion is that the station wagon floor mount cross member is utterly mince and the whole thing needs taking out and replacing. It's bolted in so that's a good start and the rail brackets are in good shape but sadly there's just no nice way to get that old one out and a new one in as it's totally blocked by the bodywork I could cut a hole in the side and TIG it back together afterwards but that is a vomitworthy idea. Other than that it's splitting the body from the chassis either in part or entirely and, ugh, that doesn't seem fun. It /would/ give more room for working on the cross members so I just don't know. What's the removal and re-fitment procedure like from those that have done it?

Tooling is not an issue unless 'special' items are needed. Have multiple forklifts and skilled operators to lift it. If this is going ahead then I should get access to a four post lift as well.

 

[8ob]

I would be tempted to unbolt the roof and lift the rear tub off, the few hours that would take would be worth it. It would also give you a chance to clean up/protect the rest of it.

Bob

 

[eSCHEn]

I would be tempted to unbolt the roof and lift the rear tub off, the few hours that would take would be worth it. It would also give you a chance to clean up/protect the rest of it.

Bob

See this is the main issue for me Bob, I'm not a nugget by any means (well... ) but I'm not familiar with LR stuff at all really. I would love to be able to get the opinion of a bona-fide expert that was local enough to visit it in person. However, this area is pretty much all farmers who have them so :/

OH is asking her contacts to see she can arrange SWK to come and take a gander. Nobody who is familiar with LRs has as yet.

 

[armalites]

Sad thing is someone has clearly spent some time putting waxoyl or similar one there in the past. I guess there is also a chance that was done to cover stuff up.

 

[eSCHEn]

Sad thing is someone has clearly spent some time putting waxoyl or similar one there in the past. I guess there is also a chance that was done to cover stuff up.

Always that chance with the schutz "hides all sins" gun but in this case it all looks positive. The coating's been checked underneath in countless places and is nice and sound.

 

[Migmac]

Are the floors not riveted in?

 

[tom2207]

I did one of those last week , the part is about eighty quid,, I made a new section from 3mm and put a join in the middle , I also put a single lip on the outside where the bolts used to go right up through a box , to get rid of a rust trap , and enlarged the relief section for the fuel hoses ,
Some one is going to say wheres the pics , I didnt bother to take any as I didnt think any one would be interested , typical and Im not sure the vehicle is still on the ramp, but it saves a lot of lifting and messing about , no way you would want to start lifting the body or cutting panels ,

for the joint I welded a spare piece of the same profile underneath one side , left it long enough to go under the other side and put 4 x 8mm nuts and bolts through ,, then just for good measure welded the two lower edges ,, be wary as the nuts and bolts sit close to the rear seat box so they need to be neat to stop them rubbing ,
strange thing is that this x member is bolted to the chassis solid , and bolted to the alloy seat box rigid too , all steel and alloy touching in the wrong places , I also had to put in two alloy repair patches round the seat bolts as they were vanishing in a hole , I just rivited those on then the bolts went through the lot to sandwich it all together , between the bracket for the x member and the patch on the seat i put a gasket made from an old oil bottle , the plastic sort , and trimmed it back with a stanley knife , its not perfect but it may keep the steel and alloy apart and help , the bolts however go right through the lot , and are steel , so as i said , not perfect , but fingers crossed ,, the whole job took me a long day , on a ramp , that included dropping the exhaust for access and the prop shaft off too , but it needed a rear diff seal , so no biggie, long story short , it can be done without messing with the body work.

just as a point to note for any one thinking of doing this ,,, dont weld the top brackets on till after the new section is in , you need the space to wiggle the new sections in , also makes lining up the new section and the brackets to the original holes a lot easier. hth

now I wish id taken some pics , as it would have made a lot more sense ,, but as i mentioned in a previous post , i seldom take my phone to work , i leave it in the car to stop it getting full of dust and dirt ,,

 

[armalites]

Always that chance with the shultz "hides all sins" gun but in this case it all looks positive. The coating's been checked underneath in countless places and is nice and sound.

It doesn't look as horrific as the mot sheet made it sound

 

[eSCHEn]

It doesn't look as horrific as the mot sheet made it sound

Yep exactly. The MOT tester was even more pessimistic and said it was new chassis time or lots and lots of welding. Probably right on the latter

I did one of those last week , the part is about eighty quid,, I made a new section from 3mm and put a join in the middle , I also put a single lip on the outside where the bolts used to go right up through a box , to get rid of a rust trap , and enlarged the relief section for the fuel hoses ,
Some one is going to say wheres the pics , I didnt bother to take any as I didnt think any one would be interested , typical and Im not sure the vehicle is still on the ramp, but it saves a lot of lifting and messing about , no way you would want to start lifting the body or cutting panels ,

Interesting Tom. So you remade the whole part to save the eighty quid or you used the eighty quid part and split it in the middle to get it in position and welded back up once in place?

 

[zx9]

Yep exactly. The MOT tester was even more pessimistic and said it was new chassis time or lots and lots of welding. Probably right on the latter

Some MOT testers don't like Land Rovers and some MOT testers don't understand Land Rovers, this one obviously falls into the second group and probably the first group.
Not saying you need a dodgy MOT just that if I were you I would be looking for a different test centre.

 

[tom2207]

Yep exactly. The MOT tester was even more pessimistic and said it was new chassis time or lots and lots of welding. Probably right on the latter


Interesting Tom. So you remade the whole part to save the eighty quid or you used the eighty quid part and split it in the middle to get it in position and welded back up once in place?

i made the whole part just a top hat section four folds , and did it in 3mm , cut it in the middle , and with the exhaust off and the prop off for access it went in ,,, ah ,,, one thing to note , I used the top brackets off the original x member ,,, but didnt weld them on till i had the new x member in place , that made getting it in esier with the brackets on it would be tough ,,, but after the alloy patches and the plastic gasket , I welded the brackets on last , made it a good tight fit with no measuring

a 2 x 1 sheet of 3mm cost me 45 quid , I made two x members so have one spare , and still have most of the sheet for the next chassis job etc , probably only used a tenners worth of steel , better than a repair panel , faster than waiting for post , and just a better job all round , plus it let me join it the way I wanted not the way they wanted .

 

[tom2207]

The problematic part to the corrosion is that the station wagon floor mount cross member is utterly mince and the whole thing needs taking out and replacing. It's bolted in so that's a good start and the rail brackets are in good shape but sadly there's just no nice way to get that old one out and a new one in as it's totally blocked by the bodywork I could cut a hole in the side and TIG it back together afterwards but that is a vomitworthy idea. Other than that it's splitting the body from the chassis either in part or entirely and, ugh, that doesn't seem fun. It /would/ give more room for working on the cross members so I just don't know. What's the removal and re-fitment procedure like from those that have done it?

Tooling is not an issue unless 'special' items are needed. Have multiple forklifts and skilled operators to lift it. If this is going ahead then I should get access to a four post lift as well.
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View attachment 253655

the one i did was a lot worse , so you should get away with re using the end brackets , and re using he top brackets too , they are available as a repair section , or just make them , they are basic enough , but they will cut off the old x member and clean up , and save you some grief.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

YRM panels will be your friend there

 

[julianf]

The CSW cross member bit isnt as scary as it seems.

Hack out the old one, however you can, and then drill out the rivets on just one of those triangular bits, slide a YRM one (with the detatchable brackets) in from the side, and then bolt the (detatchable) brackets back on.

Then rivet back the triangle.

 

[Ashley Burton]

@zx9 Is this like the whole rear anti rollbar business that isn't fitted from factory on some models. But some testers think it's missing as they're not fully aware about it?

 

[willie.macleod]

Looking at your pictures I would suggest you give RCP (Replacement Chassis Parts) a call. Lots of people make bits - but they are the only supplier I know of that make all the bits you need;

1) Rear crossmember
2) 110 SW body crossmember (pre-split for easy fitting)
3) Front 1/4 chassis for a td5 110

You can probably get away without the front 1/4 chassis if you are willing to put in the time to do a bit of fabricating around the dumb irons and plate over the crossmember behind the bumper but I know from my own that that once the rot starts there patching is a bit of a faff and you end up chasing the rust around, the whole crossmember is likely to need at least one side replacing and you have rot at the ends you are trying to patch onto as well which is why I think the front 1/4 may be a good idea.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

@eSCHEn Meant to ask, are those your yellow highlighting(s) or the MOT tester's?

 

[eSCHEn]

@eSCHEn Meant to ask, are those your yellow highlighting(s) or the MOT tester's?

Tester’s Slim.

 

[BROWNDOG]

I did one of those last week , the part is about eighty quid,, I made a new section from 3mm and put a join in the middle , I also put a single lip on the outside where the bolts used to go right up through a box , to get rid of a rust trap , and enlarged the relief section for the fuel hoses ,
Some one is going to say wheres the pics , I didnt bother to take any as I didnt think any one would be interested , typical and Im not sure the vehicle is still on the ramp, but it saves a lot of lifting and messing about , no way you would want to start lifting the body or cutting panels ,

for the joint I welded a spare piece of the same profile underneath one side , left it long enough to go under the other side and put 4 x 8mm nuts and bolts through ,, then just for good measure welded the two lower edges ,, be wary as the nuts and bolts sit close to the rear seat box so they need to be neat to stop them rubbing ,
strange thing is that this x member is bolted to the chassis solid , and bolted to the alloy seat box rigid too , all steel and alloy touching in the wrong places , I also had to put in two alloy repair patches round the seat bolts as they were vanishing in a hole , I just rivited those on then the bolts went through the lot to sandwich it all together , between the bracket for the x member and the patch on the seat i put a gasket made from an old oil bottle , the plastic sort , and trimmed it back with a stanley knife , its not perfect but it may keep the steel and alloy apart and help , the bolts however go right through the lot , and are steel , so as i said , not perfect , but fingers crossed ,, the whole job took me a long day , on a ramp , that included dropping the exhaust for access and the prop shaft off too , but it needed a rear diff seal , so no biggie, long story short , it can be done without messing with the body work.

just as a point to note for any one thinking of doing this ,,, dont weld the top brackets on till after the new section is in , you need the space to wiggle the new sections in , also makes lining up the new section and the brackets to the original holes a lot easier. hth

now I wish id taken some pics , as it would have made a lot more sense ,, but as i mentioned in a previous post , i seldom take my phone to work , i leave it in the car to stop it getting full of dust and dirt ,,

i did more or less the same thing on my 110 except i took the lower sill panel off (drilled out rivets ) for more acces ,bit of a balls ache to get off but worth it and who at L/R thought it was a good idea to have alloy and steel in contact with each other ?? .....

 

[zx9]

@zx9 Is this like the whole rear anti rollbar business that isn't fitted from factory on some models. But some testers think it's missing as they're not fully aware about it?

That sort of thing, one tester wanted all the 'repair' panels in the floor of my 1976 RRC to be fully seam welded. They were not repairs they were exactly as they had come from Rover, the floor sections are all bolted, they have to be because that is how you get the LT95 out of the car.