I just removed the spark plug and red cover in order to take a look. What a rickety arrangement. It looks like mine was 'serviced' by a previous owner but the fundamentals are probably unchanged. For a start, that large aluminium plate acts as the main 'spring' or tensioner when pushed up against the red cover. The mechanism might go back and forth by quirky design but all the throttle movement ends up doing, is moving that small brass lever, near where the fuel comes in. Here's my latest photo.
- Thread starter peterd51
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I just removed the spark plug and red cover in order to take a look. What a rickety arrangement. It looks like mine was 'serviced' by a previous owner but the fundamentals are probably unchanged. For a start, that large aluminium plate acts as the main 'spring' or tensioner when pushed up against the red cover. The mechanism might go back and forth by quirky design but all the throttle movement ends up doing, is moving that small brass lever, near where the fuel comes in. Here's my latest photo.
bill_gj
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Isn't that plate the crude speed governor?
I recall that, on my long-deceased Suffolk Punch, there was a fan that brew air onto the paddle and as it moved it was linked to the throttle to help keep the speed down.
Higher revs = more fan blow = more paddle movement = throttle back
I recall that, on my long-deceased Suffolk Punch, there was a fan that brew air onto the paddle and as it moved it was linked to the throttle to help keep the speed down.
Higher revs = more fan blow = more paddle movement = throttle back
peterd51
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Hi,
geat photos, thanks.
On mine the cable inner is a lot shorter than yours and the nipple is tight up against the top lever.
It's either a redesign or a previous owner has bodged it. The paddle plate isn't there either but I'll not need that for a buggy.
Thinking about it today, sitting in a boring meeting just after lunch, I realised there's no way to stop it other than turn off the fuel and let the carb drain out...
I wasn't planning on removing the flywheel cover as I didn't want to risk damaging the electrics but I might do that now and look for a way to short the electrics out with a kill-switch. If I can arrange something then I'll get one of those wrist-band operated safety switches.
Regards
Peter
geat photos, thanks.
On mine the cable inner is a lot shorter than yours and the nipple is tight up against the top lever.
It's either a redesign or a previous owner has bodged it. The paddle plate isn't there either but I'll not need that for a buggy.
Thinking about it today, sitting in a boring meeting just after lunch, I realised there's no way to stop it other than turn off the fuel and let the carb drain out...
I wasn't planning on removing the flywheel cover as I didn't want to risk damaging the electrics but I might do that now and look for a way to short the electrics out with a kill-switch. If I can arrange something then I'll get one of those wrist-band operated safety switches.
Regards
Peter
bill_gj
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On the older Punch engines, there was a bit of springy steel under one of the head bolts which leaned over toward the spark plug.
When you wanted to shut the engine off, you pressed the bit of steel onto the plug top/HT connection and shorted the HT to ground, thus stopping th motor.
There was a piddly bit of insulation on the steel spring, so it wasn't (always) painfull.
When you wanted to shut the engine off, you pressed the bit of steel onto the plug top/HT connection and shorted the HT to ground, thus stopping th motor.
There was a piddly bit of insulation on the steel spring, so it wasn't (always) painfull.
peterd51
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HI,
ouch! sounds like a good way to get a 'belt'. There is a broken bit of metal attached under one of the bolts...
though I'd prefer something on the lower voltage side of the coil if I can do it that way.
Also, I noticed that there was a pin sticking out of the side of the engine but thought it was a timing pin, etc. It's now obvious that this is where that governor plate was attached. I think if I was restoring this to it's original spec and re-fitting to the mower I'd be struggling as there does seem to be a few bits missing and at the age it is they're probably not easily available.
Latest news on the engine is that on the side of the flywheel it states 'use 1/4 UNC bolts to remove the cover''. So I did a scrounge around the workshop and found a big old box of nuts/bolts, etc, from the 60's and 70's and actually found a couple of suitable bolts!
But they're only about 2" long and as the space inside the cover is about that they wouldn't actually move the cover. I can probably get away with a spacer underneath but this afternoon Bobbie will be calling in at the local bolts suppliers to see if she can buy a couple of 3" long bolts for me. If not I'll be bunging spacers through the contacts adjusting hole and try to set them under the 2" bolts that I've got...
I wanted to try the electro-cleaning set-up and I've now got the bits together. The exhaust has a big splodge of rust all around the bottom half so tonight I'll be charging up a spare car battery and setting it up with a view to trying the rig tomorrow night to see how it goes. My charger runs about 6 amps maximum so I reckon a decent car battery with the charger on will run overnight.
Regards
Peter
ouch! sounds like a good way to get a 'belt'. There is a broken bit of metal attached under one of the bolts...
though I'd prefer something on the lower voltage side of the coil if I can do it that way.
Also, I noticed that there was a pin sticking out of the side of the engine but thought it was a timing pin, etc. It's now obvious that this is where that governor plate was attached. I think if I was restoring this to it's original spec and re-fitting to the mower I'd be struggling as there does seem to be a few bits missing and at the age it is they're probably not easily available.
Latest news on the engine is that on the side of the flywheel it states 'use 1/4 UNC bolts to remove the cover''. So I did a scrounge around the workshop and found a big old box of nuts/bolts, etc, from the 60's and 70's and actually found a couple of suitable bolts!
But they're only about 2" long and as the space inside the cover is about that they wouldn't actually move the cover. I can probably get away with a spacer underneath but this afternoon Bobbie will be calling in at the local bolts suppliers to see if she can buy a couple of 3" long bolts for me. If not I'll be bunging spacers through the contacts adjusting hole and try to set them under the 2" bolts that I've got...
I wanted to try the electro-cleaning set-up and I've now got the bits together. The exhaust has a big splodge of rust all around the bottom half so tonight I'll be charging up a spare car battery and setting it up with a view to trying the rig tomorrow night to see how it goes. My charger runs about 6 amps maximum so I reckon a decent car battery with the charger on will run overnight.
Regards
Peter
shenion
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Getting a 3" 1/3-20 bolt may be difficult as it will likely only have just over an inch of thread. Look for an "all-thread" bolt. You can use threaded rod instead.
Have used engines with the "short the plug" metal strip. Works well, but if you hand slips off you can hit the plug.
There may be no low-voltage kill tab on the magneto, so not much you can do other than shorting the plug. If it has points, then that is an easy thing to short out.
Have used engines with the "short the plug" metal strip. Works well, but if you hand slips off you can hit the plug.
There may be no low-voltage kill tab on the magneto, so not much you can do other than shorting the plug. If it has points, then that is an easy thing to short out.
wyn
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If the "cover" is the finned flywheel i wouldn't have thought you thread bolts right through and push it off against the crankcase. It's more likely the threaded holes are to attach a puller, which acts on the end of the crank shaft.
That's the way i see it working, but that could well be wrong.
Many thanks for enlightening me on what that plate is there for. I now intend to remove it and block off / cover up the fins of the fan, so I don't lose power from the engine for what I see as a pointless task! It seems so inefficient, for them to incorporate a power-sapping feature like that. What's wrong with speed control, via the throttle alone?
shenion
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The fins provide cooling for the engine. The cover funnels this air over the head. I would not remove them. Adding a vane to measure airflow as a governor is a freebie. Tecumsech engines have an internal governor but they still have the fins to provide cooling.
These engines will destroy themselves quickly if over-reved. The throttle set up sets the speed so it will maintain the same speed with changes in load. A direct throttle would allow you to over-rev the engine if there was no or a light load (like going downhill on a go cart.)
These engines will destroy themselves quickly if over-reved. The throttle set up sets the speed so it will maintain the same speed with changes in load. A direct throttle would allow you to over-rev the engine if there was no or a light load (like going downhill on a go cart.)
peterd51
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Hi,
thanks for the suggestions.
Bobbie got the bolts for me and the cover popped off very easily. I removed the coil assembly then found that the plug lead goes out the back of the casing through a hole and it has a bit of pipe to act as a gromit.
I found a bit of thickish wire and solderer it to the wire from the points so I can short them to earth. There wasn't room to push this wire through the bit of pipe with the plug lead so I drilled out the casing hole slightly and found a bit of tube that could just, with a bit of spit and a bit of shoving, take both wires. It was also, by chance, just a nice fit in the bored out hole.
The black wire near the bottom (5 o'clock position) is my new one. the bit of tube is up the top around the 1 o'clock - 2 o'clock position.
All this time the spare car battery was on charge and looking good, I've left that on overnight.
Next was to make up the battery connection lead. I found one that had the right battery terminals on, I'd used it on the caravan years ago. I cut the positive wire just after the battery connection and installed half an old mains plug screwed one end and soldered the other to the 'pin' so I can use the fuse holder with a 13A fuse. The other end now has a couple of spare crock clips.
Not much to show for a couple of hours fiddling, but it's fun!
Regards
Peter
thanks for the suggestions.
Bobbie got the bolts for me and the cover popped off very easily. I removed the coil assembly then found that the plug lead goes out the back of the casing through a hole and it has a bit of pipe to act as a gromit.
I found a bit of thickish wire and solderer it to the wire from the points so I can short them to earth. There wasn't room to push this wire through the bit of pipe with the plug lead so I drilled out the casing hole slightly and found a bit of tube that could just, with a bit of spit and a bit of shoving, take both wires. It was also, by chance, just a nice fit in the bored out hole.
The black wire near the bottom (5 o'clock position) is my new one. the bit of tube is up the top around the 1 o'clock - 2 o'clock position.
All this time the spare car battery was on charge and looking good, I've left that on overnight.
Next was to make up the battery connection lead. I found one that had the right battery terminals on, I'd used it on the caravan years ago. I cut the positive wire just after the battery connection and installed half an old mains plug screwed one end and soldered the other to the 'pin' so I can use the fuse holder with a 13A fuse. The other end now has a couple of spare crock clips.
Not much to show for a couple of hours fiddling, but it's fun!
Regards
Peter
Scott - talk about extra-sensory perception! Your concerns are more than justified, thanks, because a few years ago I disconnected the drive chain which propels my lawnmower across the lawn. Now, all the engine has to do, is turn the cutting blade. I push it around manually, for greater control. So, yes, it's an ultra minimal load on the engine, and I'll need to watch that I don't over-rev it. It must drink more fuel, though, with that fan turning.
Peter - you don't need a battery for electrolytic rust removal; just a battery charger.
peterd51
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Hi,
that battery is for the electolytic cleaning bath that I'm setting up, following a couple of other threads, to clean up the exhaust box. If it works then I'll be able to use it for other things in the future.
This build gives me an excuse to try a few different things that I've not done before.
Regards
Peter
that battery is for the electolytic cleaning bath that I'm setting up, following a couple of other threads, to clean up the exhaust box. If it works then I'll be able to use it for other things in the future.
This build gives me an excuse to try a few different things that I've not done before.
Regards
Peter
Drains
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You'll have to push fast if you take the fan off, George! That fan's there for a reason. You could always fit a temperature controlled clutch to the fan drive, if you're really concerned about fuel consumption.
peterd51
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Hi,
I know, but for the initial set-up I only have a 6 amp battery charger, so I was planning to using a spare car battery as a float to get it up to around ten amps and keep it going for twelve hours.
If it works as well for me as it does for other people then I'd probably build a power pack with ammeter and variable resistors, etc, for longer-term use.
Regards
Peter
I know, but for the initial set-up I only have a 6 amp battery charger, so I was planning to using a spare car battery as a float to get it up to around ten amps and keep it going for twelve hours.
If it works as well for me as it does for other people then I'd probably build a power pack with ammeter and variable resistors, etc, for longer-term use.
Regards
Peter
peterd51
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Hi,
well I wasn't too impressed with my attempt at electrolytic cleaning. The anode got very clean but the exhaust just had what was left of the paint taken off, the rust stayed about the same. I could only get it up to 4.75 amps as I ran out of room in the 'bath' to add any more tablets so that may have had a lot to do with it. I have an old pan and I think I'll get it on the stove to boil it up and melt some more of the dishwasher tablets and washing soda into it.
The engine is rebuilt and it runs. Needs the carb tweaking but it was getting a bit smokey in the workshop and I could taste the fumes so I stopped it. The engine cut out wire works too! I made a nice pull cord for the engine out of a bit of orange 'draw rope'. Put a washer at the engine end and then spliced it back...'dogs dick' type. At the other end I drilled a hole through some 19mm box, threaded the rope through and spliced a loop. It doesn't cut into my hand now and the washer helps it to flick out of the starter pulley.
Had a wander around the car-boot but someone beat me to the only pedal go-kart on the market yesterday. He said he'd paid a fiver for it...the git! I've seen a few on Ebay around £20 but the nearest is 30 miles away. Might start thinking about making my own chassis...
Regards
Peter
well I wasn't too impressed with my attempt at electrolytic cleaning. The anode got very clean but the exhaust just had what was left of the paint taken off, the rust stayed about the same. I could only get it up to 4.75 amps as I ran out of room in the 'bath' to add any more tablets so that may have had a lot to do with it. I have an old pan and I think I'll get it on the stove to boil it up and melt some more of the dishwasher tablets and washing soda into it.
The engine is rebuilt and it runs. Needs the carb tweaking but it was getting a bit smokey in the workshop and I could taste the fumes so I stopped it. The engine cut out wire works too! I made a nice pull cord for the engine out of a bit of orange 'draw rope'. Put a washer at the engine end and then spliced it back...'dogs dick' type. At the other end I drilled a hole through some 19mm box, threaded the rope through and spliced a loop. It doesn't cut into my hand now and the washer helps it to flick out of the starter pulley.
Had a wander around the car-boot but someone beat me to the only pedal go-kart on the market yesterday. He said he'd paid a fiver for it...the git! I've seen a few on Ebay around £20 but the nearest is 30 miles away. Might start thinking about making my own chassis...
Regards
Peter
I have great success with electrolytic rust cleaning, so I can only guess where you might have gone wrong:
1. If by anode you mean 12V +ve, this should go to the sacrificial piece of steel - the larger the surface area the better, within reason. It should not have "got very clean". It should have become riddled with serious rust, as it gets eaten away.
2. It's not the job of the electrolysis process to remove paint. I remove all paint with paint stripper first, and I get rid of as much rust as I can with a wire brush, as well, before I start with electrolysis.
3. 4.75 amps is serious overkill in my opinion, let alone any additional current from a car battery. I use the lowest setting on the trickle charger and it normally runs at about 1 amp. That's more than enough. Leave it overnight or for 24 hours, or more.
4. It sounds like you added a lot of tablets and soda. I add only about 1 tsp (15ml) of washing soda per gallon, or something like that, and it works great. For a lawnmower exhuast it would only need a couple of pints of water, and a pinch of soda, I would have thought.
I'll try de-rusting my lawnmower's exhaust and will report back. Perhaps it's made of aluminium or something!
peterd51
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Hi,
thanks for the update. The 'other' thread on here was saying five to ten amps was required, although I may have read it wrong.
I eventually had about four litres of water, with about a dozen dishwasher cubes and a couple of handfulls of washing soda, left on for around 16 hours. If that was way over the top then why didn't it shift the rust quicker/easier/more efficiently?
The exhaust is about the size of two tobacco tins and feels like very thin mild-steel, 0.6
mm or 0.8mm. I did a repair on my sons mower exhaust where I popped it open to weld up the pipe inside it using my mig.
I can't do much this week as I'm on 'lates' and don't get home until 7.00pm, but I could try again leaving it running for 24 hours this time.
The anode was an old car wheel-brace and had around the bottom five inches in the water (the bit with the socket on). I can definately see a line where it's all clean below and still dirty/rusty above.
Also the anode gathered some orange gunk that I had to wipe off with some paper towels.
Regards
Peter
thanks for the update. The 'other' thread on here was saying five to ten amps was required, although I may have read it wrong.
I eventually had about four litres of water, with about a dozen dishwasher cubes and a couple of handfulls of washing soda, left on for around 16 hours. If that was way over the top then why didn't it shift the rust quicker/easier/more efficiently?
The exhaust is about the size of two tobacco tins and feels like very thin mild-steel, 0.6
mm or 0.8mm. I did a repair on my sons mower exhaust where I popped it open to weld up the pipe inside it using my mig.
I can't do much this week as I'm on 'lates' and don't get home until 7.00pm, but I could try again leaving it running for 24 hours this time.
The anode was an old car wheel-brace and had around the bottom five inches in the water (the bit with the socket on). I can definately see a line where it's all clean below and still dirty/rusty above.
Also the anode gathered some orange gunk that I had to wipe off with some paper towels.
Regards
Peter
peterd51
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Hi,
well I popped the exhaust back on clean-up cycle to see what it does, I can leave it until Saturday if I need to.
On my way out of work this evening I found that someone had thrown a coat stand in the skip, so it was in my car a bit sharpish! It's around 71" high, 13" square at the bottom and 9.5" square at the top, see photo below.
It's 19mm box with a wall thickness of 1.6mm...I was thinking as soon as I saw it that if I don't get a pedal go-kart off the car-boot this weekend then I could hack this about a bit a make a half-decent race-car out of it!
Regards
Peter
well I popped the exhaust back on clean-up cycle to see what it does, I can leave it until Saturday if I need to.
On my way out of work this evening I found that someone had thrown a coat stand in the skip, so it was in my car a bit sharpish! It's around 71" high, 13" square at the bottom and 9.5" square at the top, see photo below.
It's 19mm box with a wall thickness of 1.6mm...I was thinking as soon as I saw it that if I don't get a pedal go-kart off the car-boot this weekend then I could hack this about a bit a make a half-decent race-car out of it!
Regards
Peter
