long term atlas 10f lathe restoration/modification

[Henrik]

Last autumn I picked up an incomplete Atlas 10f lathe, with the intention to only use the lathe bed for a CNC project. However, when i got it home, it turned out that the headstock bearings etc were actually in quite decent nick, so as it came with the countershafts, saddle, headstock etc, I thought I might restore it up to usable condition and then decide how to proceed with the CNC project.

It's a real slow project, as I basically only have an hour here and there to play in the garage, and there's hundreds of other projects taking time as well.

Anyway, enough of that. Here are some pics of what it looked like when I got it home:

I've since stripped it mainly to bits, and treated most metal bits using the electrolytic rust removal process. It has worked better than I anticipated. The barrel in the tailstock was originally so rusted that it wouldnt' move in and out, but after chucking it in the bath for a week, it's now bright again, and even the original etched scale can be easily read.

The lathe bed was also totally rusted towards the tailstock end (to the point of the tailstock binding). This was treated using a custom built wooden box with a cut up binliner as a waterproof membrane. Again, it is now in really quite decent nick from a rust point of view.

I've also started painting it using Massey Ferguson grey enamel paint - it's really good stuff. I'm not claiming to be the best painter out there, but at least it looks much much better than when I got it home.

Plan now is to bolt it back together and see what it's like in use.

The cross slide leadscrew is lose in its bearing, so it's not "nice and smooth" to use, so that will need attention, however it doesn't affect initial operations so will remain as it is for now. The screw and nut seem to be in good condition, however I'll probably replace these with a metric version when I replace the bearing and do a rebuild of the saddle.

The main leadscrew had significant wear, and I also broke the rear mounting bracked for it, so I've got myself some 14x2mm trapezoidal rod to replace it. This is not required for manual operation, so will remain broken for a while whilst I try the lathe out.

I need to use this lathe to make a bushing for my drummond round bed's countershaft, hence the urgency to get it working again, and minimal work to get it "up and running" at present.


Long term plan is to mount the new main lead screw and drive it through an Arduino controller and basically implement some form of electronic leadscrew. Once I have that working, I will probably add a stepper to the cross slide too and make it fully cnc'd, but I think the electronic lead screw would be a good half way house to aim for at first, as it will let me do fine feeds and metric/imperial screw cutting easily.

 

[DAPPH]

Most of the gears needed to make it a geared thread cutting lathe are still available in the USA as well as a lot of other goodies that make make life easier for you .

I belong to " hobby-machinist.com " it has a section dedicated to the Atlas lathes, there are lots of very helpful guys on it , in all sorts of place around the world including the UK .

This is my 75 yr old beastie called a " Sphere 10 inch F " very similar to the Atlas , it seems to have most of it made in the UK not the USA .

 

[Rig Pig]

Nice looking Sphere, I have a restoration project one sat in the shed, since I bought a Smart and Brown in good condition the interest in sorting it out has dwindled a bit. I must get round to it.

 

[DAPPH]

I've put a medium sized QCTP on it and purchased a set of nine indexable tipped tools . Had to cut and file up a new anchor plate for the QCTP centre bolt ..boy has it improved things tremendously . I can now turn to 0.03 of a mm unsupported four inches from the chuck . Running between centre and the chuck I get it down to 0.02 . That's with only re setting the gibs up once after doing the initial buyers deep double de gunge clean up & reassembling the chucks , cross , compound slide and tail stock then running it back in again.

 

[Browser]

I am determined to get the two 10Fs I bought several years ago to make into one good one up and running this year as it's been too long waiting. I'll have to use this thread as inspiration to get on and do it!

 

[DAPPH]

When you do get a sound working one would you post here or PM me with a list & some pictures of what you have left over please ?
I'm after the left & right hand head stock bearing shaft grease retainers .

 

[Henrik]

Nice looking lathe there Dapph

I've made a little bit more progress on the build...

The apron has been stripped of unnecessary gears and "gubbins" now, and it's now left only with the rack and pinion drive. All of the other bits will eventually be unnecessary anyway, and it gives more room to mess around with the new lead screw:

I've also started assembling the lathe again:

The tail stock is missing its woodruff key, so I will have to make one from something.


The rack and pinion saddle movement is not particularly nice in use, but at least it gives an option to locate the saddle close enough to use the top slide. Also, the saddle moves freely all the way up and down the bed without binding anywhere, so I think the bed itself is not worn past its sell by date yet, which is fantastic news


Next up is disassembling and assessing the top slide. If it's no good, I have about 4 other top slides to use, but would be nice to use the original one as at least the dovetails etc match up without any messing about. I'm hoping that it's just a bit rusty, and actually in as good nick as the bed.

 

[DAPPH]

Henrik ,
In the top picture of your above post for the lathe I can see two holes in the cross slide which are used to supply oil to the cross slide screw & it's shank bearing , do you know what size the screws are .?
They are missing from my sphere and I can't work out if they should be American National Fine , BSF , BA . or some special diameter with a special thread per inch rate and or a special thread angle . I haven't found any tiny grub screws elsewhere on the lathe that can be used as a test piece to decide the sizes needed .

I'm not quite yet at the stage of drilling them out, re tapping to a new bigger size and then fitting Allen key headed grub screws,,, but it's getting closer by the day

 

[Henrik]

Hmm, you mean the ones on top?

Not sure what thread they are - I measured the inside diameter of the thread as 0.135" (or there-abouts). Can't get a thread gauge down there, as it's so small, and either way the threads look a bit messed up on mine. I don't have any screws to go in the holes, unfortunately, although your idea sounds good.
The minor diameter of an m6 thread is 4.929mm, so that'd be a decent replacement, as the 0.135" inside diameter of the current hole is 3.429mm (though my measurements might be out by a couple of tenths of mm). Having said that, the parts list shows nothing in these holes: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/51/3454.pdf


The thread for the screw to hold the resettable dials is 0.180" outside diameter, if anyone wants to know

I've taken the cross slide apart today, and the lead screw inside it has a small amount of wear (the threads are nowhere near being knife-edged or anything), but from a visual inspection they look "about 50%" worn. I'll probably leave it alone for now, apart from a session in the electrolysis tank, as it looks perfectly serviceable still.


One problem I've run into is that I have no woodruff keys for the compound slide and the tailstock... I can't seem to find the appropriate size on the parts lists - typical!

 

[Henrik]

I've been doing some more rust removal, and I tried using a sieve for the small bits (bolts etc), but tbh it didn't work too well. The rust was being slowly removed, but there were poor connection issues between the parts and the sieve, so progress was real slow.

However, a while back I bought some crocodile cables for my Arduino, and I tried using them, and they actually work really well:

With the above cables, the connection was good, and they simplify connecting the bits of metal to be derusted to the cathode. Highly recommended @ around 3 pounds delivered off amazon.


The little handle for the tailstock was rusted almost beyond repair, but it came out OK after some time in the bath too. I don't want to paint it, but I also don't like the little black bits that get left in the pitting of heavily rusted parts, so I experimented a bit with first cleaning it with a wire brush and then applying some rust removal gel. The gel makes the part a little bit better, but not enough to make me want to bother with it going forward.

Before gel:

After gel:

The part ended up a little bit better, but as you can see there's no massive difference. This test was carried out with Hammerite rust removal gel.


The top slide dial was badly rusted, and I couldn't even see it had a scale to begin with, however after electrolysis and some further cleaning, I ended up with these nice'ish looking dials:

The other side looks slightly worse, but the scale is at least readable:

Also, very happy with the shinyness of the metal plate. This is a shot of what I started with:

The slide has been temporarily assembled just to see what it looks like:

Obviously the paint needs to be scraped off the way. I find this takes less time than masking up tbh, so I'm sticking with it


One issue has cropped up, namely that I cannot find the gib-strip for the bottom dovetail (top slide to cross slide). I'm assuming these are not too hard to make? Looks more or less like a plain strip - is mild steel OK for this, or should it be brass or similar?

 

[Pete.]

Don't use brass for a gib strip. Steel or cast iron.

 

[Henrik]

I lucked out and found the gib strips again, so now the top slide fits as well as when it was first made. No appreciable play with the strips, and the slide moves over the whole length without binding.

I got some of the link belting from RDG, which I must say is really good stuff. Beats disassembling the headstock, that's for sure.

I've also fitted a toggle switch (to keep the looks semi-original). The switch will activate the contactor.

Here's a shot of the headstock end with my little 3 jaw chuck. I have about 5 different chucks in various sizes (3 and 4 jaw), but only one back plate that fit the small 3 jaw.

Starting to look like a lathe finally


Next steps - need to find a motor. I'm thinking something in the 0.5 - 1hp range, but matters are slightly complicated by the required shaft size of 5/8" (most seem to be 3/4"). I could bore the pulley out, but finding a motor with the right size shaft for sensible money would be even better.

 

[DAPPH]

For your own safety I'd consider putting a double pole relay activated push button start /stop & kill switch in the live feed cable & mounting it on the right hand side of the table on a leg . For it means you're not stood in the direct line of things being thrown out if something goes wrong on the start up etc. .
Plus should you get tangled up they are safer bet than the flick switch your connecting up as it's likely to be your left side that is caught up .

 

[Henrik]

A very valid point indeed!

I'm thinking of getting one of those massive "stop" buttons to sit on the table leg or similar (easily bumped with a knee, for example) to cut mains power to everything on the table (lathe, dro, arduino, work lights etc).

My little drummond would benefit from a similar arrangement, thinking about it... That lathe is an even bigger h&s nightmare than the atlas, with it's exposed gear train and no easy way to stop the power without a finger either... Coupled with a (for the size of lathe) 1hp motor, it's definitely got the capability to maim)

 

[migmug]

I would fit one of these

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-emergency-stop-nvr-switch

Looking at the lathe you are doing a good job, the top silde it looks a bit odd, the one on my old altas 10" was thinner and rounded, it might be from a 12" so watch the tool height.

I recommend you try and get a copy of the THE manual of lathe operation by the Atlas Press Company, it
give you all the info you will need, they spec the motor size as 1/3 to 1/2hp smaller than you might think.
You might find a PDF on line but you can read it here
http://www.scribd.com/doc/34415359/...s-and-Machinists-Tables-Atlas-Press-Co#scribd

 

[Henrik]

I managed to get a motor in the end - a 3phase 1hp motor (wired in delta). It's now mounted, and I used my little drummond round bed to modify the bore of the pulley. It's the first time I've actually used the drummond for anything useful, and it's actually not a bad bit of kit, especially as it's over 100 years old Managed to get the bore to a slight interference fit (about 0.001" undersize)

The maplin project box houses the contactor wiring.

In the end, I bought a non-NVR safety switch, with the reasoning that my rotary converter will have a NVR switch once it's completed.


Here's a video showing it running. The start up is nice and fast, and the safety switch works as intended:

The back plate for the chuck is not straight (I hope), hence the wobble. I don't think it's the spindle itself, although I will take the chuck off to check (no wobble has been apparent before when manually turning it). Also, the back plate is not the one originally fitted to the chuck, so fingers crossed.


Next up, after checking the spindle, is to manufacture some sort of tool holder.

 

[Pete.]

I think the belt is on backwards Henrik.

My Atlas also had a wobbly back-plate. I un-bolted the chuck from it and turned it true in place on the spindle.

 

[DAPPH]

Do check that the threads in the chuck and those on th spindle are totally clean and don't have any dings on them . Also check the register collar on the shaft and the face of the register on the chuck for tiny dings If you have a reasonable face plate ,

Some guys have found that due to un original chucks being used that the depth of the thread of the chuck is not as deep as needed so there is often a 0.005 or more gap on one part of the registeron your lathe

Perhaps use an original face plate if you have one & check it for accuracy in several place with a DTI to check several marks chalked on the face plate . You'll soon see if it's out .

" Tubal Cain " is a guy with around 72 you tube videos on all manner of lathe stuff , mainly using an Atlas lathe .

In one of them he uses two morse taper mandrels an MT 3 in the hed stock & an MT 2 in the tailstock ( I think Ive put the correct sizes down ???) ending in a Jacobs taper to fit drill chucks on to check the trueness of the tail stock alignment after resetting . They are dirt cheap Chinese one's , fairly well finished from RG . My set of both sizes cost me about £9 inc p&p

If the face plate exercise shows no appreciable problems , can you mount the dismantled chuck on the face plate and do a DTI run out check on the various faces ?

 

[DAPPH]

For guys who like to use the link belting in place of the proper belting to save having to dismantle the headstock. Back in my apprenticeship days in the 1960's we had it hammered in our bone domes that it is only a temporary repair not a long term solution.
Neither I suspect is the latest versions of link belting.

During my 15 yrs in HMF we only ever used it as an emergency repair jobby as it often cut into the shoulders of the shoulders of the vee grove on pulleys. It is to do with the rivets & washers making slightly higher pressure points on the pulley walls after the belt settles in and is readjusted a few times .

On the engine of the Thorneycroft Mighty Antar tank transporter with the Rolls Royce Meteorite 204, V 8 , 16 spark plug engine , we often fitted it as pairs when the original paired compressor belts stretched & went over size .

More often than not in the next 150 miles it had shed both of the link belts at least once as it stretched with the friction & heat . A couple of times it ruined the air brake compressor drive pulley, which was not a happy thing for the drivers who were sometimes dragging a total of 106 tons around if they had a bridge layer tank on the back end of the truck.

 

[Gritineye]

During my 15 yrs in HMF we only ever used it as an emergency repair jobby as it often cut into the shoulders of the shoulders of the vee grove on pulleys. It is to do with the rivets & washers making slightly higher pressure points on the pulley walls after the belt settles in and is readjusted a few times .

I know just what you mean about the rivets and washers, been there seen that, but the more modern type he is using has no rivets, Google twist lock belts for more info.