Manual / Hand pump conversion of 3ph car lift

[Jeffers_S13]

The output from the VFD should be connected directly to the three brown wires coming from the motor. There should be nothing in between VFD and motor, only copper and plastic.

In the photos, it looks like the motor wires go into the blue box. Disconnect them there and wire into the VFD.

That would remove the limit switch but I suppose and the ability to control the lift using the lever on it? I’ll just have to be careful!?

Lever

Comes into the tank here and operates the switch in the blue box:

 

[Jeffers_S13]

If it is fixed frequency, then it is unlikely to have soft start (ramp up from 0 hertz to 50 hertz). For something that needs to start under load, like a compressor or ramp, that might lead to an overload trip. The ramp up is a good feature of the VFD as it is kinder to a borderline electricity supply. Yes, the device you show is a cheaper option than a full VFD, but you would have to choose carefully what you use it on.

So I need a ‘better’ one ? with soft start, this is my ignorance to it all…

 

[Onoff]

What make lift is it? 2 post?

The BiL has converted two lifts, one Bradbury and one Grazia. Just removed the 3kW motor, fitted a 230V one, a couple of sprockets and 1/2" pitch chain. I'll see if I have a photo.

I sorted the electrics on both. Unfortunately he'd gutted the wiring on the Bradbury before I got to it, stripped out all the limits etc.

Two contactors I did on the Bradbury for up/down:

https://flic.kr/p/2f3hgTK

Inside the motor (can't remember which lift):

https://flic.kr/p/RgVvoP

On the Grazia I pretty much retained everything as is, just replaced the 400/24V control transformer with a 230/24V one. Think I did the contactors too. Again will try and grab a picture inside. Before:

https://flic.kr/p/2eXFwzJ

Seems to be enough backlash and take up to not need a VFD.

 

[Jeffers_S13]

What make lift is it? 2 post?

The BiL has converted two lifts, one Bradbury and one Grazia. Just removed the 3kW motor, fitted a 230V one, a couple of sprockets and 1/2" pitch chain. I'll see if I have a photo.

I sorted the electrics on both. Unfortunately he'd gutted the wiring on the Bradbury before I got to it, stripped out all the limits etc.

Two contactors I did on the Bradbury for up/down:

https://flic.kr/p/2f3hgTK

Inside the motor (can't remember which lift):

https://flic.kr/p/RgVvoP

On the Grazia I pretty much retained everything as is, just replaced the 400/24V control transformer with a 230/24V one. Think I did the contactors too. Again will try and grab a picture inside. Before:

https://flic.kr/p/2eXFwzJ

Seems to be enough backlash and take up to not need a VFD.

Yes it’s a Bradbury Mk1.

All of what you’ve posted is interesting but looks very complicated to me, I wouldn’t know where to start with setting that up.

 

[MAMIL6]

Sorry, coming late to this party, I'm not an electrician, but I have some experience, having converted three 3 phase tools (lathe, bandsaw and a good sized grinder) to work on domestic power via an inverter.

This is SO the best way to go. With a 3 phase inverter drive, you can control how the motor starts so it ramps up rather than zero to full, like you get with a contactor. 3 phase motors are far superior to single phase in high load applications.

Yours would be an easy conversion as the rating plate shows the motor supports use of 380 v and 240v.
This means there will be six connections available on the motor (so it can be connected star, for 380v or delta for 240v)

A motor current of 6A at 240v means 1.5KW, but best go for an inverter with a minimum 2.2KW rating. It will still work from a 13A plug.
I haven't used any of the cheap Chinese inverters, I've stuck with 2nd hand Mitubishi units for mine.
I'm sure there are others here with wider and deeper experienec than me, but feel free to contact me direct if you want a hand

 

[Jeffers_S13]

So I’ve connect the VFD as shown in my pics. It flashes 400.00 and a fan comes on briefly then goes off and it continues to flash. I press ‘RUN’ and it begins rapidly counting from 0 to 400 and then stops at 400.00 and the display alternates between showing 400.00 and 0.00.

If I operate the lever on the lift at any point during the counting or when it reaches 400, nothing happens.

When I press ‘STOP RESET’ it counts back down to zero.

The instructions may aswell be written in Swahili for all the understanding I have of them.

Edit : this counting seems like soft start to me actually based on what someone said earlier ? It’s counting up to 400hz, I think this is where I got to last time I was messing around and hence why I got to the conclusion that this VFD is more suited to a lathe or mill?

 

[tom2207]

So I’ve connect the VFD as shown in my pics. It flashes 400.00 and a fan comes on briefly then goes off and it continues to flash. I press ‘RUN’ and it begins rapidly counting from 0 to 400 and then stops at 400.00 and the display alternates between showing 400.00 and 0.00.

If I operate the lever on the lift at any point during the counting or when it reaches 400, nothing happens.

When I press ‘STOP RESET’ it counts back down to zero.

The instructions may aswell be written in Swahili for all the understanding I have of them.

Lol ,, at that point Id stop ,,, before the magic smoke escapes ,,, again Id be jumping at the offer above offering a hand and being a local chap too ,,,, a box of beer and a few thanks goes a long way .
That magic smoke is expensive to replace.

 

[MAMIL6]

Google pointed me to a manual for your inverter (https://bulkman3d.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/HY01D523B-VFD-Manual.pdf)

Like you, I struggled a bit the first time I set up an inverter, but it's not too bad once you get tuned in. The key is understanding how to wire the start and stop signals, which looks to be defined ok in the manual

 

[Onoff]

Yes it’s a Bradbury Mk1.

All of what you’ve posted is interesting but looks very complicated to me, I wouldn’t know where to start with setting that up.

Go with the VFD then. The BiL is dead against them for whatever reason (I'm not). By the time I get to his stuff he's generally gutted it and gone and bought the single phase motor. Similar issue with his 3 phase lathe. Didn't want to use a VFD as it would have meant moving the lathe away from the wall to get to the motor to check how was wired.

That being said his Grazia lift sits outside in all weathers so a VFD might not last long.

This I think was one of the motors off either the Bradbury or more likely the Grazia:

https://flic.kr/p/2mFMYzg

Looks eminently suitable for a VFD unless I'm wrong.

As an aside I have a 3P pillar drill here a mate gave me, in pieces with the motor and controls stripped. His intent was to convert and fit a 1P motor. Only thing is this one's motor is quite old, a 3 terminal one, so I must at some point open it up and find the star point.

 

[Jeffers_S13]

Lol ,, at that point Id stop ,,, before the magic smoke escapes ,,, again Id be jumping at the offer above offering a hand and being a local chap too ,,,, a box of beer and a few thanks goes a long way .
That magic smoke is expensive to replace.

Yes! I’ve had smoke escape once when building my kit car, I couldn’t remove the battery cables quick enough…probs more smoke in these cables I’d guess

 

[daleyd]

This is where it’s a good idea to use your spare motor on the bench. The 400 might be the frequency it’s trying to achieve, in which case you need to make some adjustments and set it to 50 hz.

Eventually the limit switch will be wired into the start circuit to work automatically.

 

[minimutly]

More likley 400v on the dc bus.
Get some local help!

 

[MAMIL6]

@daleyd sounds correct.

This is from the manual.

I would start by setting Parameter PD003 to 50Hz

 

[Agroshield]

That would remove the limit switch

Once you get it working, things like limit switches and emergency stops can (should/must) be wired into the low voltage control circuitry of the VFD.

It is a bit like the starter solenoid on the car. You do not put a red wire from the battery to the starter when you spark it up, you use a low current circuit controlled by the key to control the high current one.

So I need a ‘better’ one?

My reply there was more to the person who asked the question/suggested the product. That particular one might not be a good fit for a lift, but the one you have is fine.

 

[Jeffers_S13]

Thanks to everyone for help so far it is much appreciated, I’m gonna have to come back to it maybe one night this week as the weather is too good today to not be doing some autumnal gardening jobs!

 

[Agroshield]

When you do come back to it, please take a good photo of what is under this cover.

If the motor is set up in star (415v high voltage 3-phase), you will need to change it to delta (230v low voltage 3-phase). For testing, it won't matter if it is set up incorrectly, but long term it needs to be right.



Try to work out the logic of the blue box into which the inputs of the lever go. Hopefully it is just a two way switch - when the lever is in neutral, the switch is off; when it is up, contacts (let us call them) A & C are joined; when it is down B & C are joined.

The limit switch should be wired in series with the lever, so if you drive the lift into the limit switch, even if you are holding the lever up, the limit switch will break the circuit.

 

[Hopefuldave]

I'd go with two limit switches, one each end of travel, wired so they still allow the opposite direction, one in the wire to the run forward terminal on the VFD, one on the run reverse, so you can back down (or up) under power, and don't need to keep your hand on the switch while it does its thing... and a Big Red Button or two (push to stop, twist to release) labelled "PANIC" in large letters wired in series with the 24v DC feed to forward/reverse (up and down) located in strategic places like the entrance to the workshop...

 

[daleyd]

More likley 400v on the dc bus.
Get some local help!

Not likely, 400 is a very round number, and the dc bus will be charged as soon as power is on.

Plus it wouldn’t be common for the dc bus colts to be displayed unless you configured them to be, I’d say it was more likely to be frequency.

 

[gaz1]

i recognised your model of lift from the motor pic

yours is the bradbury 4 post lift

Identify my car lift!

This isn’t my lift but my lift is identical. I found this pic on google… I *think it’s a Bradbury Liftmaster Mk1 but might also be a Mk2 or even a series 40 or maybe these are all fundamentally the same lift (?) google just isn’t yielding a definitive answer for me on this one

www.mig-welding.co.uk

 

[daleyd]

Thanks to everyone for help so far it is much appreciated, I’m gonna have to come back to it maybe one night this week as the weather is too good today to not be doing some autumnal gardening jobs!

I know I keep saying it, but if you can do one thing at a time then it makes it easier.

Rather than trying to add an unknown vfd to your existing system, try and get it working correctly on the bench first, and ignore everything in the existing set up. Once you know that your vfd is programmed and wired correctly, then think about how it will fit into the existing system.

At the moment, I think you are trying to add an unknown vfd into a system with no real idea of how they should go together, and in the event of a fault you don’t know whether it’s the vfd or your existing system that’s the issue.

Try to break it down into smaller pieces, get one working then the next step becomes easier.
Edit to add: as well as which, removing the hydraulics lessens any chance of damage while you are testing.