Manual / Hand pump conversion of 3ph car lift

[6ply]

Give a rough location of where you are.

Take some good photos of the motor connection box (with the lid removed). These will have to be substantially better than the one you showed of the motor data plate.

You will need to rewire the motor from high voltage 3-phase to low voltage 3-phase.

Post a link to the manual for the VFD.

You will have a three core cable going into the VFD, with either a 13A or 16A plug on the end, that goes into the wall.

You will have a four core cable between motor and VFD.

Use screened braided SY cable to the motor if you can. It's not expensive - about £1 per metre.

 

[gaz1]

Someone has fitted what looks like a 3ph socket to the outside of the tank with a big switch (and a 230v double socket) perhaps to power some other piece of 3ph equipment back in the day. I don’t need that but that’s where those other wires go.

Do I need to break open that blue JB?

I’ve also put pics of how I tried wiring up the VFD.

when in the garage usage those connections come in really in handy for plugging into than running a wire across the garage floor alot safer as tools was used in the right area

a vfd i dont think will still power the 240v plug

 

[500e]

The black fitting with cap looks looks the old 1/3 phase socket
Here is a 3 phase plug that fits that type of socket
As said split it into steps, get a motor running on the bench first ignore all the rest of the bits
Have used jaguar vfd's in the past helpful Co. ring and the will talk you through or email a basic set up

Jaguar Drives by IMO

www.imojaguar.com

 

[Gareth J]

If it is fixed frequency, then it is unlikely to have soft start (ramp up from 0 hertz to 50 hertz). For something that needs to start under load, like a compressor or ramp, that might lead to an overload trip. The ramp up is a good feature of the VFD as it is kinder to a borderline electricity supply. Yes, the device you show is a cheaper option than a full VFD, but you would have to choose carefully what you use it on.

I agree that soft start is a useful feature. Maybe particularly for this application. But not essential. The original didn't have this.

In this application I would choose vfd agreed. But if the OPs priority is installation with minimal fuss/wiring changes, maybe that is a useful compromise.

Having said that, I've not experience with those boxes.

 

[minimutly]

But 400Hz is hardly comonly used though?

 

[daleyd]

But 400Hz is hardly comonly used though?

No but spookily it is the max frequency of the drive…

Bus voltage is usually around 300 and something, on a 230v drive.

 

[james butler]

There is no existing hand pump inside, it’s just a big 3ph motor in an oil tank.

The inverter you posted a link to will not work, it says so in the ad!

I’m thinking about an alternative solution, there are quite a few threads around that discuss the seemingly many problems with converting them to single phase motors or using inverters.

was only for reference that they are out there and to be fair i think they might be refering to screw jack type lifts rather than hydraulic but either way im sure its doable especially with vfd tech these days

 

[m_c]

But 400Hz is hardly comonly used though?

It is for your typical 24'000rpm water cooled router spindle.

 

[GRW]

I've got a lift and a location to site it just up the road from you

Need to fix the JCB engine though to move in into location...

Yep - you've got some space to work and play at your new place! I can see you've lots of work to do there... but what a site!

 

[Wedg1e]

It is for your typical 24'000rpm water cooled router spindle.

I think aircraft alternators used to generate at 400Hz, not sure if that's still true.

 

[Hopefuldave]

I think aircraft alternators used to generate at 400Hz, not sure if that's still true.

They did, mostly because transformers need a lot less iron in them as the frequency increases and if you're rectfying 400Hz for DC you need much smaller (and lighter) capacitors for smoothing to supply the same load. I'm thinking of the valve electronics era, when they needed transformers for HT supplies, but it's still necessary to smooth DC supplies, so may still be 400Hz (and why change?)

 

[Stupoty]

Not likely, 400 is a very round number, and the dc bus will be charged as soon as power is on.

Plus it wouldn’t be common for the dc bus colts to be displayed unless you configured them to be, I’d say it was more likely to be frequency.

The remove the motor and test it off the system is a good idea.

400 is probably the RPM it's trying to get to , seems to be a moderately common default on VFD's . It's useful for them direct drive spindle motors.

Stu

 

[daleyd]

They did, mostly because transformers need a lot less iron in them as the frequency increases and if you're rectfying 400Hz for DC you need much smaller (and lighter) capacitors for smoothing to supply the same load. I'm thinking of the valve electronics era, when they needed transformers for HT supplies, but it's still necessary to smooth DC supplies, so may still be 400Hz (and why change?)

400hz was also common on ships for synchro/servo supplies, mainly used on things that point and go whoosh or bang.

 

[Hopefuldave]

400hz was also common on ships for synchro/servo supplies, mainly used on things that point and go whoosh or bang.

Yeah, i had to do a course on big synchrosyns Some Years Ago! What was weird is they just made sense to me, most of the others just looked puzzled...

 

[Jeffers_S13]

Thought I'd come back to complete this thread as I personally hate to not see resolutions on threads like this.

Realising I was a bit beyond my skills I asked a friend; Rob, who is an electrician by trade/qualification but is a maintenance manager at a food production factory, to have a look at this over Christmas in return for a roast dinner and a few drinks for him and his Mrs at our place

He rewired the motor in delta as per some suggestions on here, so it would run on 230V. There was actually a diagram on the cover plate on the motor that showed this that I didn't even notice when I removed it several months ago, but it would have meant nothing to me then. Either way it was beyond my understanding. I had actually already wired the inverter to the motor and wired in the 1Ph 230V supply on some advice from an Electrical Engineer at my place of work. We turned it on and nothing happened.

We concluded and then traced the issue to the on/off switch that's within the oil reservoir on the car lift that's normally operated by the main operating lever by the mechanic actuated via a bunch of steel operating levers and pushrods. The solenoid was not working due to some 3Ph wiring issues I didn't understand and would not work apparently, without 3Ph power (it needs a neutral to it?). So instead, I said let's lose the switch and wire the invertor directly to the motor. We did this, turned it on and the motor actually started whirring! But nothing was happening other than it making a few bubbles in the oil. Rob realised it was running backwards so he altered some of the wiring. We tried again and finally the lift started to rise by a tiny amount, taking the slack out of the wires only and then stopping as though something was slipping like it didn't have enough power. Rob messed about with the settings on the invertor. This time it went a bit more and then stalled as it was drawing too many amps, getting on for 10A. He then said the invertor was no good as it's limit was 10A. But after some more looking we found that the motor plate stated that it shouldn't draw more than 6A in 230V mode. So this seemed to make him realise something else must be set wrong on the invertor. He adjusted the frequency of the voltage output which was at the wrong default setting and this sorted it. The lift is working great and I can now finally make use of it as intended and have two cars stacked up at one end of my workshop.

There was a link to welding here too as I had to shorten the beds by 300 mm to allow it fit in my garage. Also had to then get custom cables made!

Thanks for all help and advice.

Pic at about 70% lift and before I put the other car under it.