Merc C250 TD Blowover with non iso 2k nisocoat

[ChrisB]

What a fantastic thread, packed with useful information! I want to try painting some welding repairs and maybe the odd panel in the near future, but had almost given up hope of finding a way to do this without using iso based clear coats.

I am keen to understand the safety/PPE gear side of things for the Nisocoat 2 though. I was hoping to avoid the need for a full airfed mask setup, but had been considering one of the 3M VersoFlow TR600 powered mask/respirators with a suitable filter (positive pressure setup) - is this likely to be safe for use with the Nisocoat 2 clear.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has tried using a waterbased metallic base coat (for example a colour-matched one to a specific car manufacturer paint code), and then used the Nisocoat 2 clear to finish?

Thanks

 

[charlysays]

What a fantastic thread, packed with useful information! I want to try painting some welding repairs and maybe the odd panel in the near future, but had almost given up hope of finding a way to do this without using iso based clear coats.

I am keen to understand the safety/PPE gear side of things for the Nisocoat 2 though. I was hoping to avoid the need for a full airfed mask setup, but had been considering one of the 3M VersoFlow TR600 powered mask/respirators with a suitable filter (positive pressure setup) - is this likely to be safe for use with the Nisocoat 2 clear.

I would be interested to hear if anyone has tried using a waterbased metallic base coat (for example a colour-matched one to a specific car manufacturer paint code), and then used the Nisocoat 2 clear to finish?

Thanks

Nice one
There is an old press release from hmg saying "air fed rpe should be used to spray nisocoat" but they told me via email that a respirator with apf of 10-20 is ok for small scale spraying. A full face respirator has an apf of 50.
A positive pressure setup would have an even higher apf.
If you look at the MSDS it just says "use rpe", air fed not mentioned and the MSDS doesn't list any respiratory sensitisers and no specific ingredients which mandate air fed rpe. Indeed it has exactly the same safety recommendations as hmg epoxy primers whereas the iso paints from hmg do have an extra bit about the dangerous sensitising nature of isocyanates.
So basically it's make up your own mind and proceed at your own caution, hmg seems very cagey about recommending anything specific in terms of rpe with any of their paints.
You could try cromadex 800 or ultrimax 2 as I suspect they are very similar products and may be willing to give more specific rpe advice.

I don't know about wb basecoat but a mate of mine sprayed his car metallic black with solvent BC and cleared it with nisocoat clear, worked great!

 

[ChrisB]

Nice one
There is an old press release from hmg saying "air fed rpe should be used to spray nisocoat" but they told me via email that a respirator with apf of 10-20 is ok for small scale spraying. A full face respirator has an apf of 50.
A positive pressure setup would have an even higher apf.
If you look at the MSDS it just says "use rpe", air fed not mentioned and the MSDS doesn't list any respiratory sensitisers and no specific ingredients which mandate air fed rpe. Indeed it has exactly the same safety recommendations as hmg epoxy primers whereas the iso paints from hmg do have an extra bit about the dangerous sensitising nature of isocyanates.
So basically it's make up your own mind and proceed at your own caution, hmg seems very cagey about recommending anything specific in terms of rpe with any of their paints.
You could try cromadex 800 or ultrimax 2 as I suspect they are very similar products and may be willing to give more specific rpe advice.

I don't know about wb basecoat but a mate of mine sprayed his car metallic black with solvent BC and cleared it with nisocoat clear, worked great!

Great - thanks for the quick feedback.

I won't be able to try this until next year as things currently stand, so I will contact HMG to reconfirm based on my use case and proposed PPE usage. I might also see if I can get some specific feedback from the companies that produce cromadex 800 / ultrimax 2, and see if I can get any more feedback from HSE direct.

If I get any more useful info I'll add it to this thread in case others are interested.

 

[charlysays]

Great - thanks for the quick feedback.

I won't be able to try this until next year as things currently stand, so I will contact HMG to reconfirm based on my use case and proposed PPE usage. I might also see if I can get some specific feedback from the companies that produce cromadex 800 / ultrimax 2, and see if I can get any more feedback from HSE direct.

If I get any more useful info I'll add it to this thread in case others are interested.

Yeah it's frustrating that there isn't any clear answers. I did my reading up at the time so it'll be good to get your perspective 3-4 years on. I know another forum member contacted them recently and they surprisingly reiterated their earliest recommendation for air fed rpe so it seems to depend somewhat on who you talk to! MSDS is still delightfully vague. I would try to talk to someone senior there with proper knowledge of the chemistry rather than a general customer serviced rep seeing as each persons use of a product is different.
Since the other forum member got the "use air fed" reply I looked up each listed ingredient of nisocoat and concluded that it was no worse than epoxy primer.

I think the main issue with negative pressure rpe is the risk of slight leakage. Abek1p3 filters are capable of filtering the air properly, especially with no isocyanates present, so with positive pressure you should be just fine.
The fact that the nisocoat MSDS is basically the same as epoxy primer in terms of hazards and recommendations, plus my email stating that fairly low apf respirators are adequate tells me that it doesn't have any unpredictable sensitising nasties in it like isocyanates where even a slight whiff can be immediately dangerous.