gavuk
artful-bodger
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- Thread starter rustytoba
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......boat anchors 
oilcooled :)
Pipe Welder, Mechanical engineer
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- 976
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- Ireland
last bzz box i used was a kestro electroweld 250, the greatest piece a junk going do not buy one, its in a better place now, a hole that was dug with the ex 120
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George we ban very little on this forum, and Constructive comments or helpful advice are never edited, I am Kean that this thread Remains on topic and helpful to the OP....
Here there is plenty of points both good and bad for all machines, which are not from one opinion but a variety of sources and experience from forum members..
OCV ultimately effects the weld as it adds stability to the arc, its not just striking and is the key reason many old oil cooled machines had two or more taps, up to the now illegal 100v...
As we have all stated these little cheep machines have there place and can indeed be quite usable, but some just find them frustrating and annoying, and the £50 they have spent could have been better used getting something better..
Well, no doubt there will be more input about my ARC welder dilema!, but bread is no use without jam, so, regardles of the welder I end up with it seems the rods are just as important, so what rods do I go for, a crap rod will in turn give crap results, I'll need the best rods to make my life easier as I am effectivly a novice, what make of rod is going to be the most reliable, and there for be easier for me to get to grips with.
Hope you can help one more.
Rustytoba
Hope you can help one more.
Rustytoba
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Theres a host of decent rods on the market, Bohler for example make a 6013 called a fox ohv which is made for small transformer machines, TBH any half decent welding supplier will hand you a box of 6013s which will be quite usable, as said avoid anything from a superstore, screwfix B&Q Aldis etc, BOCs who should no better offer little more quality wise...
That's not my finding at all. Most of the rods I've used come from Aldi or Lidl and I'm very happy with them. I've not been persuaded to spend a lot more money on top branded rods. But, because I haven't tried them, I don't know if I'd get worse, equal or better results. I only know that my costs would increase. I'm not doing 'professional' work so I can't recover the costs. Most people say the type of welder I use is 'crap' and the rods I use are 'crap' and yet I still get results which meet my needs: I find it quite easy to strike an arc, the arc seldom goes out, there's minimal splatter, etc, etc.
gavuk
artful-bodger
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I'm not above buying things from aldi or lidl etc or even silverline ,look at my other threads ,but I wouldn't buy rods from Halfords,b&q,aldi or lidl.....for someone starting out at least try something half decent first,most welding suppliers do rods at reasonable cost ,don't play lucky dip at a supermarket.... if you have to... try them after some good rods ..
.Show me some good long welds,with those cheap rods....peelers...then guarantee that every box from the supplier will be the same and they will have stock when you want them ...i might change my mind
.Show me some good long welds,with those cheap rods....peelers...then guarantee that every box from the supplier will be the same and they will have stock when you want them ...i might change my mind
Drains
Yeah, nah.
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Nor is it necessary. As I stated above, it's quite possible to buy good quality rods from a welding supplier for less (far less) than you might pay, per rod, from the likes of Machine Mart or Halfords or B and Q, and the like.
White box ESABs (or White Box from any other manufacturer), what, £10-15 for 5KG? (I'm guessing).
George, you're doing it again. We're not saying don't buy cheap, just that if the OP does, he will be making life difficult. We're also not saying to spend a gerzillion pounds on top of the line equipment. It's just a mild prod to get the best value for money.
It's quite clear that in the low use DIY realm, the law of diminishing returns comes into play quite quickly. Fortunately there is a great big area between cheap tat and best quality, most expensive gear. I argue that a purchasing choice above cheap tat but nowhere near the top line equipment you seem to despise so much, would be wise.
Yes I am 'doing it again'. Your comment is so patronising. I suggest I have every right to state my own observations as someone who has actually used dozens of cheap rods from Aldi and Lidl in conjunction with a cheap Wolf 'buzz box'. Have you? Another finding of mine is that a local professional welding supplies place charges a LOT more for their rods.
One important issue with rods from Supermarkets etc is that they usually source them from the cheapest supplier at the time. They could be from aywhere, even from a main manufacturer if they are desperate, so one purchase may not be the same as the next purchase. You probably wouldnt know (until you tried them) because they are packed as the Supermarket Brand.
Manufacturers spend a lot of time and money to ensure the batch to batch variation is as limited as possible. The coating minerals are important as as they are dug from a hole in the ground they are potentially very variable. therefore the source and the maintenance of that source is important. Manufacturing to a price often excludes some of the important principles.
Buying white box stuff (unbranded) from a Welding Distributor may not be any better unless they are willing and honest enough to divulge the source.
George has his opinion and a lot of others have theirs. It wouldnt do for us all to be the same. Some people actually liked Watneys Red Barrel.
The only way to ensure quality / consistency is to buy branded rods but you will pay a premium. As with most things in life you get what you pay for.
Manufacturers spend a lot of time and money to ensure the batch to batch variation is as limited as possible. The coating minerals are important as as they are dug from a hole in the ground they are potentially very variable. therefore the source and the maintenance of that source is important. Manufacturing to a price often excludes some of the important principles.
Buying white box stuff (unbranded) from a Welding Distributor may not be any better unless they are willing and honest enough to divulge the source.
George has his opinion and a lot of others have theirs. It wouldnt do for us all to be the same. Some people actually liked Watneys Red Barrel.
The only way to ensure quality / consistency is to buy branded rods but you will pay a premium. As with most things in life you get what you pay for.
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We're ALL keen on that though I fear it's already started to go that way!
Far too many 'cheap vs expensive' threads on here, we don't need any more.
Back to the original topic please.
Drains
Yeah, nah.
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I'm sorry you find my answer patronising George. It was certainly not intended that way. I don't really see what part of my reply was patronising, and I've re-read it more than twice. I was trying to explain the basis of my opinion, that's all, however, please accept my apologies.
And yes, I've used supemarket rods. Actually that's a lie. I've tried and failed to use supermarket rods. I bow to your greater and better experience with them.
Wozz, it's a cheap vs cheaper thread.
Al, they sell all sorts of varieties of Barbican in New Zealand. Mmmm.
And yes, I've used supemarket rods. Actually that's a lie. I've tried and failed to use supermarket rods. I bow to your greater and better experience with them.
Wozz, it's a cheap vs cheaper thread.
Al, they sell all sorts of varieties of Barbican in New Zealand. Mmmm.
malcolm
& Clementine the Cat
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- 9,679
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Have you considered MIG? Can't be anything over 3mm on a trailer and arc really isn't the best process for anything thinner than that.
MIG would be a lot easier for thinner stuff than trying to do a botch with Arc. Something like a Clarke 130 MIG would be fine, and the EN versions can run gasless wire so you can save money on shielding gas (they will also run with shielding gas). You might even get to enjoy welding.
I have to mention I make MIG welders inside an extinct volcano on a tropical island so am completely biased. (I also own the argon mine next door).
Like everyone else suggested if you are daft enough not to go the MIG route pick up an inverter arc with a decent OCV and decent rods. Forget buzz boxes - they are rubbish.
Yes, with unbranded rods you don't get consistency. 6013 is a fairly broad spec anyway. They might be good, they might be terrible.
When you are starting, using cheap rods introduces another variable which you can do without.
Small packets of rods from Halfords, your local motor factor etc, work out very dear, like small packets of anything, and for something which gives no more assurance than that it will weld mild steel, is particularly dear.
shenion
Tool Pack Rat
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- Stone Mountain, GA USA
My trailers have been all 1/8" (3.175mm) and 3/16" (4.75mm) steel. Spring hangers are 1/4". I would not touch it with the Clarke 130EN I had. On 1/8" it struggled, needed joint prep for a consistent weld. Was good enough for "sticking things together" but I would not trust some of the welds for structural use and repeated stresses on a trailer. The Clarke 150/160 models would be better.
I agree an inverter arc would be best. Easiest to use and has a decent duty cycle.
I just built the frame on my trailer using 1 1/2x1/8" angle iron. Did it all with stick. 3/32" Lincoln 6013 rods:
Some of the vertical up's are a bit sloppy, but everything is sound. I have a MIG and a TIG, but I use stick most often as it is fastest to set up.
As to cheap rods. Name brands are cheap. 5lbs at $10 for Lincoln or Hobart. About $2/lb. Or go to the box stores and get 1lb boxes for $8.
$2/lb for known good or $8/lb for no-name ones. Easy choice.
decepticon
Member
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- 193
was wondering after reading this thread whether the trailers people make are subject to any kind mot test, not saying that any body here could'nt or should'nt but if random people are buying some angle, welding bits together, loading them with a ton bag of sand and motoring along dual carriage way at 70mph it sounds like it could be a recipe for trouble. Are these home made trailers insured by your car insurance if they fall apart and kill someone?
shenion
Tool Pack Rat
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Mine is classified as a "homemade trailer". Mainly because the original VIN was lost by a previous owner. It was a boat trailer i converted to an landscape trailer.
It is not even registered or insured, not required here for personal use. Part of the "wild wild west" here.
Many register homemade trailers. AFAIK, the inspection is just a visual check that nothing is going to fall off. After it is registered, there are no inspections.
It is not even registered or insured, not required here for personal use. Part of the "wild wild west" here.
Many register homemade trailers. AFAIK, the inspection is just a visual check that nothing is going to fall off. After it is registered, there are no inspections.
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We're in danger of drifting away from the topic again but trailer building regs have been discussed several times on here and one member, English Steve, posted a really good link covering the regulations which I believe are now in force.
A forum search will find the relevant threads.
I once built a boat trailer. I put the mudguards a bit to close to the wheels. First time out the trailer (plus boat) hit a pothole and the mudguards shot up in the air. The car behind actually passed under them before they hit the road behind. It was close.
Fortunately the car behing was my brother in law....we were going water skiing but thats another calamity
PS I claim to be the worlds first sub aqua water skier
Fortunately the car behing was my brother in law....we were going water skiing but thats another calamity
PS I claim to be the worlds first sub aqua water skier
Ah! Well since the government changed the driving classes, and as I passed my test in 2003, unless I want to pay the fat end of £500, I think I'm limited to trailering 250kg gross, no ton bags from Jewsons for me Im affraid.
Rustytoba
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