Mk2 Escort Group 4 Rally Car

[rallyreturn]

Got some filler on to the welded up quarter panel before fitting the arch. I also put a skim of filler over all the weld joints where I had to replace metal in the arch area.





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[rallyreturn]

The previous owner had made a real mess of fitting the turrets. I have spent time thinking about how to make this area look better.





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This is the other side, I ground down all the welds and added some filler, much happier with it now.





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just need to do this side now.

 

[rallyreturn]

I bought a used Heater bowl from another forum, took a while to remove all the surface rust, but not too bad condition for it's age.



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I welded up some of the damage caused by it's removal and used some self tapper screws to hold it in position whilst I used a block of wood and hammer to get the fit right.



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It has got holes drilled at the ends, not seen them on other bowls, anybody know if these are factory holes or drilled by a previous owner!!!! I was going to weld them over but decided to leave them alone and either plug them or use them to mount the fire extinguisher spouts.



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I also welded the Tank platform back in position.




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[rocketron]

Have really enjoyed your work, really first class. I see so many MK2's that are fabulous on the rally circuit and looking forward to see this in action. A local lad has modified his escort and fitted a 2.5l Millington Diamond motor (£35k!!!), 6speed Drenth box and all sorts of other mods. I believe it was on show at the Royal Welsh.

With so many mods currently used by MK2 builders, one which causes a problem is if your gearbox tunnel is non standard, as yours is, then should you want to use the car on MSA stage rallies, then it will have to be log-booked as CATEGORY 2, and therefore by a MSA Technical Commissioner, whether it was logbooked previously or not. It usually costs more than the usual £36. Sorry!

As an indication of how bloody good MK2's are. On a recent Irish tarmac event,(Monaghan, possibly), all the ex works WRC cars on a straight bit were measured at about 132-135mph. Several Millington Powered Escorts were 150-155mph!!!!!!
I am assured it was definitely mph, and not kph. Irish Motorsport Association are staggered and are looking into this.

 

[rallyreturn]

QUOTE [With so many mods currently used by MK2 builders, one which causes a problem is if your gearbox tunnel is non standard, as yours is, then should you want to use the car on MSA stage rallies, then it will have to be log-booked as CATEGORY 2, and therefore by a MSA Technical Commissioner, whether it was logbooked previously or not. It usually costs more than the usual £36. Sorry!] QUOTE

Can you give more details please. I'm building to Historic spec and most have big fabricated tunnels, not just auto tunnels.

 

[rocketron]

Go to www.hrcr.co.uk, go to Technical section and all info "should" be there. Would suggest you speak to the Technical guy, Paul Loveridge, for assistance. Basically, only period or homologated mods are allowed. If the former, if PL has not heard of it, then you have to prove with documentation that the mod was done!(he is NOT easily persuaded, trust me!). Homologated mods are not a problem. Tunnels and repositioned bulkheads are probably a big NO-NO. But you should check. You can also contact MSA @ 01753 765 000, and ask for Technical, who "may" be of use, or they may suggest PL.

Have found that builders have so modded their cars and unwittingly disqualified their Historic allowance. To be Historically OK, tragically, you may need to de-engineer the car! Daft scenario, I agree, however, there are plenty of tarmac and forest events you can be eligible for. (and damn near anything in IRELAND)

I appreciate there are loads of cars with non standard tunnels who run as cat1, but eventually, all of them will have to be reclassed; the MSA are adamant about this. Although at the end of the day, both cat 1 and cat2 cars compete for the same prize, you may ask why the bother. Reason is, the MSA wants its "TECHNICAL COMMISSIONERS" to check that the extensive mods are up to the job. And MSA make more money from you! May as well cat2 it first and eliminate the aggro?

Please ask away, happy to help.

 

[rallyreturn]

Thanks for the info. I have already looked through the hrcr website many times during this build and have not found anything about gearbox tunnels.

I have now emailed Paul with a photo of my tunnel and await his responce. it's not a problem if I have to cut it out and graft in the auto tunnel, as long as I can find one.

I have also googled photos of shells and cars classed as Historic and they all have big tunnels like mine.

 

[rocketron]

Agreed, there are lots of big tunnels out there, but weight of numbers don't make them acceptable. Am certain Paul will get to find them all out in time.

In the 2012 Bluebook, which is a flipping nightmare to understand, rule R49 clearly states "historic special stage rally vehicles must comply with special stage rally technical regulations with exceptions"etc. Rule R48.1.4 transmission tunnels may not be modified except by localised alteration (i.e., by whacking with a hammer) ) is not listed in the exclusions given. If you can provide documentary proof that Ford did modify such (and thus homologated) in the correct time period, then you're laughing. I'm sure many others have tried!

An auto tunnel, I understand a good replica is available in Ireland!!!, positioned in exactly the same position as Ford did, will probably get you sorted. Ford probably did fit auto tunnels to their works cars. Am sure you would know that anyway.

Basically big, fabbed tunnels make the car Cat 2, therefore not Historic, unless homologated and documentary proven.

So, where do you go? Speak to Paul first, and see what he says, he tends to make the rules, it seems.

However, as scrutineers have different interpretations of rules wherever you find us, it would be wise to check/rediscuss/argue the toss, with Paul re his interpretations. Or mine, even!

I regularly disagree with him. Regularly every time we meet!

My interpretation of tunnels is correct, having helped several builders with their cat 2 logbook application.

best regards and best of luck.

ps. I passed Ponty week last Sat. You anywhere near the uni?

 

[rallyreturn]

I got a reply from Paul, Quote,

The tunnel in the picture looks o/k, as you will most likely appreciate there does not seem to be a normal size for one. They all vary? The picture seems to show what looks like an exhaust tunnel? This is permitted for a BD engine car however it is not permitted for a Pinto.

It does look like an exhaust tunnel in the photo but it's just the shape of the tunnel as it meets the floor.

Having been to see most of the MK2 escorts at scrutineeing in Historic events they almost all have after market fabricated tunnels fitted, and even those that have auto tunnels have been modified (Top fabricated cover) to fit the ZF gearbox which is what the Ford works cars used.

I'm not sure where to go with this but it's going to be quite a few years yet before this car see's any action and rules change all the time!!!!!!

Yes I live not far from the uni.

 

[rallyreturn]

Agreed, there are lots of big tunnels out there, but weight of numbers don't make them acceptable. Am certain Paul will get to find them all out in time.

In the 2012 Bluebook, which is a flipping nightmare to understand, rule R49 clearly states "historic special stage rally vehicles must comply with special stage rally technical regulations with exceptions"etc. Rule R48.1.4 transmission tunnels may not be modified except by localised alteration (i.e., by whacking with a hammer) ) is not listed in the exclusions given. If you can provide documentary proof that Ford did modify such (and thus homologated) in the correct time period, then you're laughing. I'm sure many others have tried!

An auto tunnel, I understand a good replica is available in Ireland!!!, positioned in exactly the same position as Ford did, will probably get you sorted. Ford probably did fit auto tunnels to their works cars. Am sure you would know that anyway.

Basically big, fabbed tunnels make the car Cat 2, therefore not Historic, unless homologated and documentary proven.

So, where do you go? Speak to Paul first, and see what he says, he tends to make the rules, it seems.

However, as scrutineers have different interpretations of rules wherever you find us, it would be wise to check/rediscuss/argue the toss, with Paul re his interpretations. Or mine, even!

I regularly disagree with him. Regularly every time we meet!

My interpretation of tunnels is correct, having helped several builders with their cat 2 logbook application.

best regards and best of luck.

I have just read that section in the Bluebook,

48.1.4. With the exception of cars accepted under 46.3
(see 46.3.7), and cars with modifications conforming to
their homologation papers (46.2) floor pans, bulkheads
and transmission tunnels may not be modified other
than by localised alteration to accommodate the fitting
of an alternative engine and/or gearbox and/or
differential and/or axle, seats and exhaust.

It appears that this refers to "transmission tunnels", is the diff tunnel, which is also replaced by a fabricated larger version included in this rule???????

I have emailed the technical department at MSA for clarification of this rule and look forward to their reply!!!!!!

 

[rallyreturn]

I have also found this builder with photos of Julian Reynolds Historic MK2 Escort, and as you can see both gearbox and diff tunnels are fabricated versions, Really confused now!! LOL

http://www.walesmotorsport.co.uk/portfolio_julian_reynolds.php

 

[rocketron]

A nightmare indeed. I apologise if I've caused any confusion. all my previous posts to you were about Gearbox tunnels. R 48.1.4 refers to gearbox tunnels, localised modification to allow installation of alternative engine or engine and gearbox. It does not say alternative diff.

There are maximum dimensions allowed by MSA for modified transmission and diff tunnels and rear turrets. A drawing exists in FIA website, under Technical lists. You'll find it under RALLYCROSS championship Technical regs. This is the drawing MSA use, honest! It's fig 253/1 I think. And Technical commissioners do measure cars for compliance.

I'm certain that Ford did modify auto tunnels for ZF boxes. Therefore, that is a period modification, is it not? It does not mean fully fabbed gearbox tunnels as per your photo, in my interpretation. No doubt Paul will disagree, cos we always disagree!

It may be that Paul allows a deviation/exemption for Historic. But get his "say-so", to prevent any problems in future.

I am not trying to confuse you, but it pains me greatly when builders do so much work on their cars, and on the first scrutineering get a hard time, or even after several events, something is picked up which causes expensive remedial work.

Get Paul to ok it first before finishing the car. Even drag him over to see it. He's also Welsh Road Rally championship eligibility scrute: there's bound to be one near you soon.

 

[rallyreturn]

I decided to weld up the holes in the heater bubble, then welded the bubble to the bulkhead. Finished off with filler to clean up the plug welds after grinding, and more filler to to the bubble itself, still needs final finishing with high build primer, but this can wait until the final bodywork stages.





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[rallyreturn]

I haven't had the time, or the money!! to do much on the shell, so I've just done the 1st stage of filler to cover the spoiler rivets. Hope to get a new roll cage after the summer holidays as this is the next phase of welding.





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[fordman]

Great minds think alike!! So they say!

Hi,
I've just come across your thread, don't know how I missed it before now.
Doing a great job on the car.
I'm on with a similar project, Historic Spec. build, link below:-

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=26618

Like you, at the moment it will be Pinto power for me, but I want to future proof the build so that I can easily convert to BDA in the future. Paul Loveridge has also been very helpful with replies to some of my questions.
Due to work commitment this year, I've not really progressed much, but 2013 should be good for getting on with it again.
Good to hear that Sean from Rallyweld is really helpful, as I've been in touch with him last year and I had him on a very short, shortlist to supply the parts and info. I need. Unfortunately for me, Fife is not just round the corner from him!!! PM me if you wish.
Look forward to more pics. and I'll get some more posted soon.

 

[rallyreturn]

Hi,
I've just come across your thread, don't know how I missed it before now.
Doing a great job on the car.
I'm on with a similar project, Historic Spec. build, link below:-

Thank you fordman,

I've not touched it since August due to work commitments and my daughter starting University, NOT cheap...!!

I'm hoping to get it into Rally Weld for Sean to fit a bolt in cage, weld in gearbox mounts and sumpguard fixing plates. I can then start preparing the bodywork for paint, again I'm getting this done locally as I want it in 2 pack, not safe to do in my little garage attached to the house.

Should be able to get started by March, I hope.....!!!!!!!

 

[normspanners]

group 4

Hi Just thought you might be interested in one of the ones I have built
Norm

 

[normspanners]

they didnt load first time

 

[rallyreturn]

Hi Just thought you might be interested in one of the ones I have built
Norm

Nice one..!!!

got any build photos..????

 

[205wrc]

SDT 39S. Has she been re-shelled in the last few years then? That was originally a Mark Solloway built car. Used to be green with "Mean, Green, Twin Pulley Machine" written accross the boot. I have some photos of her doing Sweet Lamb around 1998 and Builth Showground around 1999 ish. Mad Mick has her now doesn't he.