rusty69bus
moving to the goldcoast
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and they always require some modification
- Thread starter Porker Dave
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Porschemaniac
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- 305
Hi Porker Dave,
I too am restoring a 944 - great car. What year is yours?
To be fair, I think that the MOT test is a little subjective; all depends on the tester that you get on the day - and what mood they're in!!
Like many others here, I thought that the rule was that you copy the construction method for the part you are repairing; if it was spot welded, then a spot, or plug, weld will do, whereas fully seam welded parts need to be fully seam welded.
Anyway, good luck with the repairs - and the test.
All the best,
Ian.
I too am restoring a 944 - great car. What year is yours?
To be fair, I think that the MOT test is a little subjective; all depends on the tester that you get on the day - and what mood they're in!!
Like many others here, I thought that the rule was that you copy the construction method for the part you are repairing; if it was spot welded, then a spot, or plug, weld will do, whereas fully seam welded parts need to be fully seam welded.
Anyway, good luck with the repairs - and the test.
All the best,
Ian.
Porker Dave
Member
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- 8
Hi Ian,
My 944 is an early 83 2.5 Lux what’s yours? You’re right about the MOT being subjective; my mate is a MOT tester / mechanic who unfortunately couldn’t come with me when I got the car which was a shame. A couple of weeks after getting her, I took into him for a quick once over as it had just recently passed an MOT with no advisories. The sills were patched, which I was aware of and rest the bodywork showed the car was 25 years young. The worst thing was the rear fuel lines are so badly corroded I don’t know how the fuel doesn’t drain out! A dodgy MOT me thinks… Still can’t really complain I suppose, I didn’t pay too much for her.
I got the car just to tinker with and have some summer fun with, not to take on a major restoration project. I haven’t welded a car for years so it should be interesting, especially as the sills I got from Club Autosport don’t appear to be the easy job to fit that they are portrayed them to be. Haven’t yet decided how to tackle them yet.
Where do you get your bits from? The only other place I could get the sills from wanted £210 a pop!
Good luck with your project.
Regards
Dave.
My 944 is an early 83 2.5 Lux what’s yours? You’re right about the MOT being subjective; my mate is a MOT tester / mechanic who unfortunately couldn’t come with me when I got the car which was a shame. A couple of weeks after getting her, I took into him for a quick once over as it had just recently passed an MOT with no advisories. The sills were patched, which I was aware of and rest the bodywork showed the car was 25 years young. The worst thing was the rear fuel lines are so badly corroded I don’t know how the fuel doesn’t drain out! A dodgy MOT me thinks… Still can’t really complain I suppose, I didn’t pay too much for her.
I got the car just to tinker with and have some summer fun with, not to take on a major restoration project. I haven’t welded a car for years so it should be interesting, especially as the sills I got from Club Autosport don’t appear to be the easy job to fit that they are portrayed them to be. Haven’t yet decided how to tackle them yet.
Where do you get your bits from? The only other place I could get the sills from wanted £210 a pop!
Good luck with your project.
Regards
Dave.
Porschemaniac
Member
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- 305
Hi Dave,
Mine is a 1984 2.5 Lux - I uch prefer the look of the early dash cars.
To be honest, I got ripped off! My car also came complete with a highly dodgy MOT. The paperwork included with the car contained a failure certificate from an MOT station and a certificate issued the very next day, from the same station; none of the issues on the failure certificate had been addressed - and this included the severe corrosion to the front N/S jacking point.
Really, I should have spotted this - but I made the fatal mistake of taking my wife with me when I viewed the car. Picture the scene; big house in Hampshire, grounds, electric gates, etc. Matey boy gets the car out of the garage and I begin my usual crawl around underneath. Suddenly, my wife, in her best Hyacinth Bucket tone, exclaims, "What on earth are you doing!". Fearing a public domestic and having been made to feel like a ****, I cut short my under-vehicle inpsection. What a mistake!!!
I have now had the car around 9 months. To date, I have been through practically every electrical circuit on the car - you would not beleive some of the bodges I found. I have had to replace the ignition switch (a tricky job and probably the reason for most of the 'imaginative' wiring bodges I found). I have ripped out the dead electric sunroof and converted it to manual - much better. The front suspension was shot, so I've replaced both wishbones and all bushes and, of course, I've rectified all of the advisories on the MOT Fail.
One month ago (almost to the day) the car passed a pucker MOT at my local Formula 1 centre, with no advisories.
In terms of getting parts, try:
Pelican Parts (US based, but quick delivery)
944 Online.com (Again, US based, but ther website is a great source of info and the forum is great)
Porscheshopuk.com (UK Based)
German Swedish French (Great service and good price)
Euro Car Parts
Don't forget good old e-bay
In addition, don't forget that there are many similarities between the early 944 and the Mk1 Golf GTi, when it comes to ancilliaries - such as switches, suspension components etc. Also, try to think outside the box - I needed some blower realys, which would have cost about £30 each from Porsche - a quick trawl through the Maplin Electronics website turned up a perfectly useable 'standard' relay - even the terminals were nubered the same as the Porsche part - for £5!
Anyway, good luck with your project. If you get stuck, PM me - I may well have had the same problem.
All the best,
Ian.
Mine is a 1984 2.5 Lux - I uch prefer the look of the early dash cars.
To be honest, I got ripped off! My car also came complete with a highly dodgy MOT. The paperwork included with the car contained a failure certificate from an MOT station and a certificate issued the very next day, from the same station; none of the issues on the failure certificate had been addressed - and this included the severe corrosion to the front N/S jacking point.
Really, I should have spotted this - but I made the fatal mistake of taking my wife with me when I viewed the car. Picture the scene; big house in Hampshire, grounds, electric gates, etc. Matey boy gets the car out of the garage and I begin my usual crawl around underneath. Suddenly, my wife, in her best Hyacinth Bucket tone, exclaims, "What on earth are you doing!". Fearing a public domestic and having been made to feel like a ****, I cut short my under-vehicle inpsection. What a mistake!!!
I have now had the car around 9 months. To date, I have been through practically every electrical circuit on the car - you would not beleive some of the bodges I found. I have had to replace the ignition switch (a tricky job and probably the reason for most of the 'imaginative' wiring bodges I found). I have ripped out the dead electric sunroof and converted it to manual - much better. The front suspension was shot, so I've replaced both wishbones and all bushes and, of course, I've rectified all of the advisories on the MOT Fail.
One month ago (almost to the day) the car passed a pucker MOT at my local Formula 1 centre, with no advisories.
In terms of getting parts, try:
Pelican Parts (US based, but quick delivery)
944 Online.com (Again, US based, but ther website is a great source of info and the forum is great)
Porscheshopuk.com (UK Based)
German Swedish French (Great service and good price)
Euro Car Parts
Don't forget good old e-bay
In addition, don't forget that there are many similarities between the early 944 and the Mk1 Golf GTi, when it comes to ancilliaries - such as switches, suspension components etc. Also, try to think outside the box - I needed some blower realys, which would have cost about £30 each from Porsche - a quick trawl through the Maplin Electronics website turned up a perfectly useable 'standard' relay - even the terminals were nubered the same as the Porsche part - for £5!
Anyway, good luck with your project. If you get stuck, PM me - I may well have had the same problem.
All the best,
Ian.
Porker Dave
Member
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- 8
Thanks for the info Ian appreciate it. Thankfully all the electrics appear to be working ok, having said that I’m sure once I’ve blasted on the new sills with my luck I will have managed to blow something up!
I managed to get rid of my wife hence having the time to play with a car. Perhaps in hindsight, probably I shouldn’t have got a Porsche and gone with something easier as a play thing. But I’ve always wanted one and this car seemed ok. Like you, I should have either spent more time looking at it or taken somebody who knows what they are looking for. One of the draw backs for having had company cars for too long!
Thanks again for the heads up on parts supply.
Cheers,
Dave.
I managed to get rid of my wife hence having the time to play with a car. Perhaps in hindsight, probably I shouldn’t have got a Porsche and gone with something easier as a play thing. But I’ve always wanted one and this car seemed ok. Like you, I should have either spent more time looking at it or taken somebody who knows what they are looking for. One of the draw backs for having had company cars for too long!
Thanks again for the heads up on parts supply.
Cheers,
Dave.
Sunbeam-mike
Member
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Read any series of article on car restoration and you'll see them replicating the original method when they replace a complete panel (spot(plug), seam or braize) and seam weld where they insert a patch repair.
Porker Dave
Member
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Thanks for all the posts and advice chaps. The cover sills were seamed welded on over the recent bank holiday with out to much drama.
I then found the battery tray allegedly welded for the previous owner, wasn’t such a good job. Going by the receipt that came with the car he paid top money for the welding and all he got was tape and filler. I replaced this and the section of floor that had rotted due to constantly getting wet from water coming in through the battery tray area.
Great tip about using cardboard to make templates, never done this before I used to just cut plate as I went a long. I made plated that fitted correctly without having to beat the life out of it as I welded.
Should pass the MOT now, anyway thanks again for all the advice it was greatly appreciated.
Dave.
I then found the battery tray allegedly welded for the previous owner, wasn’t such a good job. Going by the receipt that came with the car he paid top money for the welding and all he got was tape and filler. I replaced this and the section of floor that had rotted due to constantly getting wet from water coming in through the battery tray area.
Great tip about using cardboard to make templates, never done this before I used to just cut plate as I went a long. I made plated that fitted correctly without having to beat the life out of it as I welded.
Should pass the MOT now, anyway thanks again for all the advice it was greatly appreciated.
Dave.
I MOT vehicles for a living. Not read the whole of the thread, but just to clear up a few points on this page...........Sunbeam mike is basicaly correct, if you replace the whole sill member, then it's OK to spot weld. If it's a covering or skin sill, it's classed as a patch repair and should be fully seam welded. The measurement to remember is 30cm (about a foot) from any suspension, brake, steering or seat belt mounting............so with the MOUNTING at the centre, anything within a 60cm diameter sphere, must be repaired correctly. Things like battery trays, boot floors etc, don't really matter..........unless they contain any of the above mountings. Remember that if a seat belt mounting is attached to the seat, then all of the seat mountings are subject to the 30cm rule........other than that the seat only has to be "secure".
Fuel pipes can be as corroded as you like, they only fail if they actually leak.
Hope this helps clarify some of the strange MOT regs...
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From the tester's manual; "So only a continuous seam weld is acceptable for patch repairs, although spot welded joints are acceptable where they originally existed."
This would imply that even if you put a patch on a sill which included the lower flange then you can spot/plug weld it on the bottom flange provided the rest is fully seam welded and that you've removed the flange from the old sill in the area of the repair (i.e repair ends up as floor, inner sill, repair piece flange and not floor, inner sill, original outer sill flange and repair piece flange)
peterd51
happy to be here!
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Hi,
I would read that as saying if replacing, say, 12" of a sill...cut the section out, plug weld the top and bottom edges but seam weld the vertical joints onto the original sill. Is that what your message says?
Having said that I'd actually run seam welds all around if I was doing it. My argument is that a full seam weld would allow for any odd bits that didn't get full penetration.
Regards
Peter
I would read that as saying if replacing, say, 12" of a sill...cut the section out, plug weld the top and bottom edges but seam weld the vertical joints onto the original sill. Is that what your message says?
Having said that I'd actually run seam welds all around if I was doing it. My argument is that a full seam weld would allow for any odd bits that didn't get full penetration.
Regards
Peter
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Yes Peter, that's how I read it too, in my opinion the manual clearly states that would be an acceptable method of repair. One criteria is that you have to remove the flange from the defective panel and spot/plug the patch to the existing inner sill flange.
Double worms I think and I might also hide here
cos I'm expecting this thread to raise a few hackles. 
Double worms I think
and I might also hide here
Yes Peter, that's how I read it too, in my opinion the manual clearly states that would be an acceptable method of repair. One criteria is that you have to remove the flange from the defective panel and spot/plug the patch to the existing inner sill flange.
Double worms I thinkcos I'm expecting this thread to raise a few hackles.
No 'ackles ere mate, lifes too short. If you are replacing the whole sill section, i.e. the member as fitted in the factory (original) then it's ok to use the same method as the original constructor. If you cut a piece out of the sill, grind the spots off to the original flange, whatever, this is a "patch" repair, just like a skin sill (i.e. only a half of the original member) then it should be fully seam welded. VOSA's rules, not mine.
Don't forget that you can pass the MOT with a corroded hole thro' the sill, provided it falls outside the 30cm rule.
Also, someone earlier was on about "dodgy" tickets. The test gives a sort of guarantee. VOSA will hear complaints about mechanical defects for the first month, corrosion complaints will be considered for the first three months.
Anyone with a genuine complaint (in the time frame) should ask the issuing station for a VT17 appeal form..........watch their faces
Oh, & don't forget, loads of black underseal hides a multitude of sins
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No 'ackles ere mate, lifes too short. If you are replacing the whole sill section, i.e. the member as fitted in the factory (original) then it's ok to use the same method as the original constructor. If you cut a piece out of the sill, grind the spots off to the original flange, whatever, this is a "patch" repair, just like a skin sill (i.e. only a half of the original member) then it should be fully seam welded. VOSA's rules, not mine.
Don't forget that you can pass the MOT with a corroded hole thro' the sill, provided it falls outside the 30cm rule.
Also, someone earlier was on about "dodgy" tickets. The test gives a sort of guarantee. VOSA will hear complaints about mechanical defects for the first month, corrosion complaints will be considered for the first three months.
Anyone with a genuine complaint (in the time frame) should ask the issuing station for a VT17 appeal form..........watch their faces
Oh, & don't forget, loads of black underseal hides a multitude of sins
I wasn't specifically meaning your hackles JB, this thread seems very much a grey area, it would be interesting to ring VOSA and see what their take is on it, mind you, I reckon even then you could probably speak to two different people and get two different answers.
When I was a tester ( a few years ago
) we had a regular customer who'd bought a mini and thought the ticket might have been dodgy so he organised for the inspection to be done at our place. I've never seen anything like it, talk about fine-toothed comb! Mind you they didn't have to look hard to find the wodges of filler on top of recent newspapers and if I can recall correctly, they'd even filled over screwed up VT30's issued at the station who carried out the 'repairs' and issued the certificate. 
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I bought a Land Rover with 12 months ticket and found no horn fitted and bulb missing from foglight!
Probably should have chased it up but was fitting air horns and twin fog lights
Probably should have chased it up but was fitting air horns and twin fog lights
I wasn't specifically meaning your hackles JB, this thread seems very much a grey area, it would be interesting to ring VOSA and see what their take is on it, mind you, I reckon even then you could probably speak to two different people and get two different answers.
When I was a tester ( a few years ago
Hey Woz, no probs. Know what you mean about grey areas, even worse now it's computerised.............big brother etc.
Here's a different take on corrosion ('ope it displays OK) Image is of a car I tested a couple of months ago, the rear axle casing is completely corroded away, both halves of the casing resting on the half shaft. Owner (says) he was totally unaware of the problem and must have thought I was pullin' his leg, as he insisted on a trip down the pit to have a look. The car was in daily use & all that was holding the wheel/brake assembly in place, was the leaf spring, handbrake cable, brake flexi hose. Niether myself or anyone else at the garage had ever seen this one before.
Apologies if this has gone a bit off topic.........thought it might be interesting.
As regards making sealer look like weld.........seen it. Didn't work for two reasons, 1 was in a place the MIG torch just wouldn't fit in, 2 It was far better than the rest of his welding
. If you could get bits of MIG wire, spatter & birdsh*t welding out of a tube .........might just workDoes it depend on the panel? So that means when I replaced the wing panel could be an MOT failure,which was spot welded originally,and I have spot welded it again?
Superbad, I wouldn't worry about it. You are replacing like for like, using the original methods. Don't have the book in front of me, but the wording goes something like "at least as strong as the original". Make sure you have a similar number of spots, neaten it with seam sealer, can't see a problem. Wings differ from car to car, but although they may stiffen things up, they aren't load bearing in the true sense.
