pandemonium123
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the snooper
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flue gasses would not turn a turbocharger at all dont forget an engine is similar to a compressor in that the exhaust gas comes out under pressure
rtbcomp
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I would have thought that the oil burner would be like a jet engine, the flame will suck air in which will expand as it heats up??
I was wondering whether a turbine (old turbo) could drive a generator?
the snooper
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turbo chargers cause a back pressure which the engine has to fight which is why the turbocharger steals some power from the engine and installing on into a flue could simply restrict the flue and cause carbon monoxide to fill the work area
the snooper
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i think that the full thing would have to be air tight i notice it runs at 40 psi but would there be enough cfm to get it going then there would also be the resistance caused to produce the pressurised air
think about how many rpm an engine has to run at before the turbo kick in could the burner produce that i wouldnt think so
also how many cfm will an engine produce at those speeds
think about how many rpm an engine has to run at before the turbo kick in could the burner produce that i wouldnt think so
also how many cfm will an engine produce at those speeds
the snooper
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think of space heaters they are fan assisted and they dont have anywhere near the airflow.
i used to be responcible for a huge oil fired boiler that heated huge commercial greenhouses and the smoke rose up from the flue it didnt come out as though there was a jet engine behind it.
i think its a non starter
i used to be responcible for a huge oil fired boiler that heated huge commercial greenhouses and the smoke rose up from the flue it didnt come out as though there was a jet engine behind it.
i think its a non starter
There actually seems to be a some pressure coming from the flue. The area for air into the burner is 185 square cm and it goes out through 95 square cm, thats not counting the air from the compressor. You can see the gas coming straight out from the flue about 2 metres. When it's going flat out it hums.
It's running at about 10-20 psi now and is just right to keep the place warm.
Have all the holes plated over now and dampers fitted too.
It's running at about 10-20 psi now and is just right to keep the place warm.
Have all the holes plated over now and dampers fitted too.
pandemonium123
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i take it no one bothered to look at the link i posted??
http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt6/index.html
clearly self sustaining just a question of how long the fuel would last.
have a look at this for a power take off.
http://www.rcdon.com/html/gr-5a_turboshaft_engine.html
it would surprise you the power that can be taken from a low pressure turbine.
the lpt is used to power the fan you see at the front of a high bypass engine on say a 777 these produce probably 52000lb of thrust each.
to turn a alternator/ dyno your prob only talking a a few hp maybe 5hp
the small 2 seater helicopters you see are around 300 shaft hp with a engine size of a 5 gallon drum
the small apu's prob 35 shaft hp
preheat the waste oil filter it pump in through a nozzle under pressure, try a cheap boost sensetive fpr to maintain constant flow.
could be done just more a case of " can i do it " kind of project.
if the oil is free tho why not.
btw a turbo project will self sustain at a combustor pressure of 1psi and full chat at 14psi as taken from rcdons website.
http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt6/index.html
clearly self sustaining just a question of how long the fuel would last.
have a look at this for a power take off.
http://www.rcdon.com/html/gr-5a_turboshaft_engine.html
it would surprise you the power that can be taken from a low pressure turbine.
the lpt is used to power the fan you see at the front of a high bypass engine on say a 777 these produce probably 52000lb of thrust each.
to turn a alternator/ dyno your prob only talking a a few hp maybe 5hp
the small 2 seater helicopters you see are around 300 shaft hp with a engine size of a 5 gallon drum
the small apu's prob 35 shaft hp
preheat the waste oil filter it pump in through a nozzle under pressure, try a cheap boost sensetive fpr to maintain constant flow.
could be done just more a case of " can i do it " kind of project.
if the oil is free tho why not.
btw a turbo project will self sustain at a combustor pressure of 1psi and full chat at 14psi as taken from rcdons website.
i take it no one bothered to look at the link i posted??
http://www.gas-turbines.com/nt6/index.html
clearly self sustaining just a question of how long the fuel would last.
have a look at this for a power take off.
http://www.rcdon.com/html/gr-5a_turboshaft_engine.html
Wow! Thank you and Blackjack for posting those links. I wasn't thinking in terms of a jet engine type approach.
rtbcomp
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One link led to another after I checked the links posted here, i.e. oil burners > gas turbine engines > pulse jet engines and there's even a guy in trouble for building a DIY cruise missile:
http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/
He also mentions the challenge of using a TIG welder to build his pulse jet engine bodies from 0.5mm stainless steel.
Back to Babington burners... do you think it would be possible to limit the speed of a turbine on an oil burner so it would make a contribution but wouldn't produce too much noise?
http://www.interestingprojects.com/cruisemissile/
He also mentions the challenge of using a TIG welder to build his pulse jet engine bodies from 0.5mm stainless steel.
Back to Babington burners... do you think it would be possible to limit the speed of a turbine on an oil burner so it would make a contribution but wouldn't produce too much noise?
Nightstalker
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Turbine engines run at full throttle, much like diesels, so as with a diesel engine, you can limit the speed of a turbine by adjusting how much fuel you feed it. I can see fuel atomisation issues with low fuel flow rates though.
Unfortunately any DIY turbine project is unlikely to be "quiet" so I believe extracting usable power at sane volume levels would be quite a challenge. One would have to contain said turbine project in a soundproof and fireproof box.
Extracting usable power from the turbine exhaust is another challenge to overcome, perhaps use the exhaust side of another turbocharger bolted to some kind of generator?
Unfortunately any DIY turbine project is unlikely to be "quiet" so I believe extracting usable power at sane volume levels would be quite a challenge. One would have to contain said turbine project in a soundproof and fireproof box.
Extracting usable power from the turbine exhaust is another challenge to overcome, perhaps use the exhaust side of another turbocharger bolted to some kind of generator?
Its nice in theory but a bit of a no go'er IMO. If you connected the exhaust side to a generator it wouldn't build up the extra air pressure in order to keep the fire burning well. Remember it needed to be "spooled" up using an airline without this it would never start to spin. A turbo isn't really designed to do this the trims are all wrong.
You'd be better off trying to use the old oil mixed with diesel in an old diesel generater. Which again, wouldn't work very well.
The best way would probably to look at turning some of the heat into power,
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/09/100930154610.htm
Nightstalker
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Rick, I was thinking more allong the lines of another half a turbocharger attached to the first one, as seen in conventional gas producer/power turbine setups.
However, all things considered, a babbington burner atomised jet engine power plant seems rather impractical for power generation and one would indeed be better served by simply burning the oil in a furnace and utilising the resulting thermal output. Theres still something cool about home made jet engines though...
However, all things considered, a babbington burner atomised jet engine power plant seems rather impractical for power generation and one would indeed be better served by simply burning the oil in a furnace and utilising the resulting thermal output. Theres still something cool about home made jet engines though...
Bit of an update
Well it's still running and I haven't blown anything up or set myself on fire (yet).
Anyone considering making a babbington I'd definitely say do it. It was 5/6 degrees outside today and inside was 19/20 degrees inside, that's in a 1000 sq foot tin shed with no insulation.
I've been through a few different designs of the burner, changing bits of it and it now starts in no more than 5 mins, runs completely smokeless, runs all day long and needs very little cleaning, it builds up about 5mm of very light white ash inside the burner tube over a week.
I bought a small pipe bender and did away with the compression fittings.
It now has a lid over the top of the burner and this can be used to regulate the draught.
I've changed the size of the hole the flame blows through from 90mm to 60mm which stabilised the flame, but the tube it blows through stayed at 90mm. I tried all sorts of combinations of holes and burner tubes and this seems to work best.
Most sites I've been on use a long flame tube around 50-70mm diameter with lots of holes drilled in it, mine doesn't seem to need this, it still can put out a stable 2-3 foot long flame depending on air/fuel ratios.
Also most sites seem to stick with the ball being a ball in shape but I find with the doorknob that the oil runs down the front of it and when the oilflow is right that it's held by surface tension around the airhole and there's no overflow at all, all the oil is being vapourised.
The airhole in the ball, I've tried 0.3mm, 0.55mm, 0.8mm and 1mm.
It works with them all. The bigger the hole the bigger the flame.
0.3mm is ideal for a small boiler, it puts out a foot long flame, very clean and stable, I'm using this one for the burner I'm doing for the heating at home.
0.55mm works fine if you're using a 47kg gas bottle for the flame to blow into, reddens it up nicely.
0.8mm and 1mm I use in my own one.
The 0.8 is perfect for my burner, clean and runs all day.
The 1mm turns it into a bit of a monster, reddens most of the tank, being within 6 foot of it is uncomfortably hot, can't be run too long cos it gets way too hot.
For the air pressure, all sizes run from 5psi to 80 psi, just depends what sort of flame you want.
Well I hope that's useful to someone considering building one of these.
I'll put some pics of the new burner up tomorrow.
Well it's still running and I haven't blown anything up or set myself on fire (yet).
Anyone considering making a babbington I'd definitely say do it. It was 5/6 degrees outside today and inside was 19/20 degrees inside, that's in a 1000 sq foot tin shed with no insulation.
I've been through a few different designs of the burner, changing bits of it and it now starts in no more than 5 mins, runs completely smokeless, runs all day long and needs very little cleaning, it builds up about 5mm of very light white ash inside the burner tube over a week.
I bought a small pipe bender and did away with the compression fittings.
It now has a lid over the top of the burner and this can be used to regulate the draught.
I've changed the size of the hole the flame blows through from 90mm to 60mm which stabilised the flame, but the tube it blows through stayed at 90mm. I tried all sorts of combinations of holes and burner tubes and this seems to work best.
Most sites I've been on use a long flame tube around 50-70mm diameter with lots of holes drilled in it, mine doesn't seem to need this, it still can put out a stable 2-3 foot long flame depending on air/fuel ratios.
Also most sites seem to stick with the ball being a ball in shape but I find with the doorknob that the oil runs down the front of it and when the oilflow is right that it's held by surface tension around the airhole and there's no overflow at all, all the oil is being vapourised.
The airhole in the ball, I've tried 0.3mm, 0.55mm, 0.8mm and 1mm.
It works with them all. The bigger the hole the bigger the flame.
0.3mm is ideal for a small boiler, it puts out a foot long flame, very clean and stable, I'm using this one for the burner I'm doing for the heating at home.
0.55mm works fine if you're using a 47kg gas bottle for the flame to blow into, reddens it up nicely.
0.8mm and 1mm I use in my own one.
The 0.8 is perfect for my burner, clean and runs all day.
The 1mm turns it into a bit of a monster, reddens most of the tank, being within 6 foot of it is uncomfortably hot, can't be run too long cos it gets way too hot.
For the air pressure, all sizes run from 5psi to 80 psi, just depends what sort of flame you want.
Well I hope that's useful to someone considering building one of these.
I'll put some pics of the new burner up tomorrow.
Last edited:
Tom farmer
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Just wondering if you are still using this burner and any advice because I’m thinking of making one my self
