Oxy Propane advice again please...to make sure I don't blow up

[Bsmith]

When using the cutting attachment open oxy valve fully (or a good part of the way) on the torch shank and control oxygen flow with the valve on the attachment.

Propane does not produce a sooty flame, acetylene does.

The odd bang is negligible, we all get them and get used to it.

 

[[JP]]

Fuel off then oxy the reason why you do it this way(and i'm going back to what i was told in my school days) was if theres fuel left in the lines it can burn back to other parts of the torch,ie seals etc,if fuel is off 1st then oxy will clear the lines(torch) the pop you get is just a backfire
Then bleed your lines afterwards

Fuel off first simply because if you have a knackered torch valve or don't quite turn it off you can have a tiny flame burning which you don't see but can still start a fire. By turning off the fuel the oxy will blow that flame out - no fire risk. Also if you have fuel gas burning with no oxy (acetylene) you'll get airborne soot that will float about and cover stuff you might not want turning black.

thanks both, that's a good explanation as to the whys of doing that sequence. Logical things are easy to remember.

Turn off at torch, then close at bottle, go back to torch and open each at a time to let gas in hoses escape then unwind at gauges. The way you are doing it you are leaving the pressure between the bottle & gauges!

There is an excellent book by Murex/BOC that gives you all the pressure settings for all common cutting, heating & welding nozzles for oxy propane, you might get a free copy if you talk nicely to a BOC agent. If I remember I'll get the title from my copy so you can look for it.

Your heating rosebud/pepperpot will have a size on it - 2H, 3H, 4H, etc. Let me know what one you have & I will give you the gas pressures for it.

When you set the pressure on your regs you need to have the knobs on the torch fully open. If you set it with the knobs closed the pressure on the gauges will drop a lot when you open the knobs!

I have noticed that the propane pressure isn't too critical, as long as you're at least as high as the book figure it will still work. I guess that's why the most common reg for propane is a plugged one with no gauges, just a crude scale on the knob! When your propane cylinder gets low you need to set it a good bit higher as the pressure drops when you start heating!

To light oxy-propane you light the propane first, it can be difficult to light, it helps if you hold the torch near a flat metal surface. That lets the propane pool a bit making it easier to light.
Then you open the propane until just before the flame separates from the nozzle. The soot thing you mentioned is for acetylene gas.
Add the oxygen slowly until you get a nice sharp inner cone.
If you want more heat add more propane & more oxygen bit by bit.

For switching off I reverse the process until I have a small flame of just burning propane then switch it off. I sometimes get a small pop but that's normal.

I would be concerned about the way you are storing your equipment outside. It would be all to easy for someone to mess with it, cutting hoses & opening valves leaving a significant fire/explosion risk! If you can't store it inside at least build a secure mesh cage around it. I would suggest a steel box section frame covered in steel sheet, that would protect your expensive equipment from the worst of the weather but put on a steel mesh door to allow any gas leak to escape.
You shouldn't have it near any open waste pipework, drains or ducting, escaping gas can pool in there & BOOM!
With having it outside your propane might freeze up if the weather is very cold.

Thanks for this, brilliant reply.
I understand what you say about leaving the pressure between bottle and gauges, I'll correct that from now on. makes perfect sense what you say.

my heating rosebud is a 1H.

ohh.. set the pressure with the torch knobs open! now I have never read that anywhere, but it's good advice. Never thought of it. I do the same on my TIG welder.. well kinda, I step on the pedal to get gas flow going and then adjust my pressure.

thanks for the procedure to light it up and adjust, to be honest I can light the propane pretty easy, but the adjusting still baffles me, but looks like I've been doing it wrong, so I'll do it like you say today.
But I see your switch off method is different from what others said, you are saying oxy first...leave it till there's a small propane flame and then off? got that right?

In regards to storage, there's no safety issues there, no one can get to it, private property with no chance of getting to where the bottles are.
My concern was if the gauges and hoses would be damaged staying outside in the cold etc..

When using the cutting attachment open oxy valve fully (or a good part of the way) on the torch shank and control oxygen flow with the valve on the attachment.

Propane does not produce a sooty flame, acetylene does.

The odd bang is negligible, we all get them and get used to it.

thanks for the explanation here..... I definitely need to get used to the bangs, I'm jumping every time hahaha

 

[pedrobedro]

I learnt to cut and weld 50 years ago and we were always told to turn fuel gas off first. You can use the cutting torch for heating just don't use the oxygen trigger too generously. The oxygen cylinder you have there is not going to last long for cutting.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

With having it outside your propane might freeze up if the weather is very cold.

It would have to be mega cold. Ordinary Calor will and does freeze, but propane doesn't in my experience, having heated a caravan in 'the deep mid Winter' with it.

I agree re the storage in this case, though.

 

[zx9]

With having it outside your propane might freeze up if the weather is very cold.

Propane should be fine outside during UK winters, my two 19Kg cylinders which live outside were unaffected during 'The Beast From The East' when it did not get over 0 deg C for over a week.

Edit: Crossed with John's post, yes Butane will freeze much earlier than Propane.

 

[brightspark]

Fuel off first simply because if you have a knackered torch valve or don't quite turn it off you can have a tiny flame burning which you don't see but can still start a fire. By turning off the fuel the oxy will blow that flame out - no fire risk. Also if you have fuel gas burning with no oxy (acetylene) you'll get airborne soot that will float about and cover stuff you might not want turning black.

same here you just get a quick snap when it goes out but that's normal

 

[[JP]]

I learnt to cut and weld 50 years ago and we were always told to turn fuel gas off first. You can use the cutting torch for heating just don't use the oxygen trigger too generously. The oxygen cylinder you have there is not going to last long for cutting.

yes, Oxygen bottle is not very big, but i'm only a hobbyist, so cost plays a big part. it's my first bottle so I'll see how it goes and how quick it disappears...
I'm not really using it to cut, 98% of use will be for heating.

 

[brightspark]

if only for heating the oxy bottle will last a good while. just cutting will soon empty it

 

[rory1]

if only for heating the oxy bottle will last a good while. just cutting will soon empty it

you’ve never used a rosebud heating torch then, they will use twice as much as a cutting torch

 

[[JP]]

you’ve never used a rosebud heating torch then, they will use twice as much as a cutting torch

In that case is it better for me to use the cutting torch to heat up the metal rod?
I only need localised heating on 17mm steel rod to bend it probably a maximum of 60deg.. Sometimes even less than that.

 

[rory1]

In that case is it better for me to use the cutting torch to heat up the metal rod?
I only need localised heating on 17mm steel rod to bend it probably a maximum of 60deg.. Sometimes even less than that.

yeah, the cutting torch will be fine for that

 

[[JP]]

yeah, the cutting torch will be fine for that

What kind of pressures should I be using on the propane and the oxy?
Obviously I won't need to hit the lever as I won't be cutting so what's the process just for heating?
Propane..light on, flame as it just separates from tip, then open the first oxy knob wide and then the second one towards the end of torch slowly for fine adjustment till I have a sharp inner flame cone?

Is that right?
Sorry might sound like a newbie question but I'm really new to this and would like to do it right and safely.

Thanks

 

[rory1]

as I said before, 5 and 50 is a good start

you dont want any flame detachment with propane, light the propane get a good flame going, then turn on the oxygen until you get a blue flame, then turn the propane up a bit until your at full flow, , then turn the oxygen up and open it until you see the blue flame change and start going clearer then back off a bit until it goes back to blue. its hard to explain but you get the hang of it when you play with it. as long as you've got flashbacks you can't really do much wrong

 

[Turbo]

Ok, I went to the trouble of scanning the pages on torch lighting & pressure settings from the booklet I have, then I discovered that you can download the whole book as a pdf! Here's the direct link

http://murex-welding.co.uk/gb/en/support/upload/A5-Safe-use-of-Oxy-Fuel.pdf

I was given this book on a gas safety course & I would consider it a bible for anyone doing any oxy fuel processes, even experienced users can learn something. For instance I've just learned that I should be shutting off the propane first. Guess I was shown the wrong method years ago & just stuck to it!

If you can find a hard copy of this book you can carefully drill through the top corner & hang it on your gas bottles with some copper wire.

You could also print out & laminate any useful info & have it up in your garage!

 

[brightspark]

when I 1st got my oxyacet bottles of boc they gave you a booklet on setting up procedures and use . its not rocket science and quite simple

 

[[JP]]

when I 1st got my oxyacet bottles of boc they gave you a booklet on setting up procedures and use . its not rocket science and quite simple

No, it's not rocket science at all and I'm a self taught on everything I do - and I do TIG in mild, stainless and ally, metal fabrication, engine building, motorbike building, auto upholstery,.... learned everything on my own and with youtube videos and internet help, like here.

but... in this case, with things that can potently explode, I thought was better ask the people who know than me doing my usual thing of giving it a go and learn by trial and error, hahaha

 

[[JP]]

Ok, I went to the trouble of scanning the pages on torch lighting & pressure settings from the booklet I have, then I discovered that you can download the whole book as a pdf! Here's the direct link

http://murex-welding.co.uk/gb/en/support/upload/A5-Safe-use-of-Oxy-Fuel.pdf

I was given this book on a gas safety course & I would consider it a bible for anyone doing any oxy fuel processes, even experienced users can learn something. For instance I've just learned that I should be shutting off the propane first. Guess I was shown the wrong method years ago & just stuck to it!

If you can find a hard copy of this book you can carefully drill through the top corner & hang it on your gas bottles with some copper wire.

You could also print out & laminate any useful info & have it up in your garage!

thanks for that link!
I'll print it the tables at work today and laminate them.

 

[outofthefire]

https://www.boconline.co.uk/en/images/BOC-operating-safety-instructions_tcm410-39396.pdf

 

[[JP]]

Hi again, so I have, from the 2 links you gents sent, compiled what is off interest to me. The propane settings.
also many thanks for the links as it clearly explains lighting up and shutting off procedures.

So as discussed just a few replies above, seeing as im only heating up 17mm solid steel rod to make localised bends of up to 60 degrees or less, seems like I'll be better off just using the cutting torch as gives the precise location heating. - obviously wihtout then go touching the lever for full blast.

My question though is, on the table, related to pressures for cutting (using a cutting torch).. do I use those same pressures for heating up? seeing as I'll be using a cutting torch? My uneducated guess is I'd say so as the tip is still the same....?
The cutting tip I have is a 3/32... I guess on my uneducated guess when I bought it I was thinking 12mm to 17mm steel rod to heat up... this size will probably do as its recommended to when cutting material up to 15mm.
Or should I buy a smaller tip for the cutting torch to heat up my steel rod?


thank you.

 

[WorkshopChris]

its not rocket science and quite simple

Until it, all goes horribly wrong then its Practical Rocket Science in action.