- Thread starter James1979
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Agroshield
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These are all good, but you have to show the flat blank in them as well, not just the finished, closed item. If the tooling is horizontal, the blank can just lie on it but you still have to consider how to stop it moving forwards and backwards, to ensure the bend is the correct distance from the end of the blank.
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When discussing with the client, it might be worth finding out how he will install these. If he slides the end of the tube into the clip, it is better to supply to him as 'closed'. If he pushes the clip sideways over the tube, then it would be better to supply them 'open' (and the open option is less work for you making them).
mtt.tr
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Yeah that's worked out in my mind, I'll 3d print the tooling to demonstrate it
Munkul
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at 4000-off, I'd be buying packs of these, stripping the rubber off them, and selling them on to him 
Even that's going to be around £2500-£3000 at best, before you add your cut on... if you were making them there's no way you could make them as cheap as that, unless you had a dedicated production line and based off hundreds per minute...
Think about it... this is as efficient as I could see it in my head in a normal sheetmetal shop:
1. guillotine strips
2. use custom form punch on a metalworker to radius the ends and punch holes
3. punch 90 degree bend in one end
4. hand form the U shape around a form jig
And that's assuming your tooling is minted sharp so you don't have sharp edges to deburr... might get it with a tumbler, not sure...
£2/ea is probably not a bad figure to start from...
Even that's going to be around £2500-£3000 at best, before you add your cut on... if you were making them there's no way you could make them as cheap as that, unless you had a dedicated production line and based off hundreds per minute...
Think about it... this is as efficient as I could see it in my head in a normal sheetmetal shop:
1. guillotine strips
2. use custom form punch on a metalworker to radius the ends and punch holes
3. punch 90 degree bend in one end
4. hand form the U shape around a form jig
And that's assuming your tooling is minted sharp so you don't have sharp edges to deburr... might get it with a tumbler, not sure...
£2/ea is probably not a bad figure to start from...
Shox Dr
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You only have to add up the times you have to handle between processes to know its going to be expensive and laboriousat 4000-off, I'd be buying packs of these, stripping the rubber off them, and selling them on to him
Even that's going to be around £2500-£3000 at best, before you add your cut on... if you were making them there's no way you could make them as cheap as that, unless you had a dedicated production line and based off hundreds per minute...
Think about it... this is as efficient as I could see it in my head in a normal sheetmetal shop:
1. guillotine strips
2. use custom form punch on a metalworker to radius the ends and punch holes
3. punch 90 degree bend in one end
4. hand form the U shape around a form jig
And that's assuming your tooling is minted sharp so you don't have sharp edges to deburr... might get it with a tumbler, not sure...
£2/ea is probably not a bad figure to start from...
Personally I would stay clear. Ive been sucked into stuff like this myself, with the thought of "easy cash"
There's areason why some people can stand at a station on a production line doing the same thing day in day out, and this WILL be days. For what will workout as peanuts by the time you have finished them.
James1979
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£2 was where I’m at to be honest.at 4000-off, I'd be buying packs of these, stripping the rubber off them, and selling them on to him
Even that's going to be around £2500-£3000 at best, before you add your cut on... if you were making them there's no way you could make them as cheap as that, unless you had a dedicated production line and based off hundreds per minute...
Think about it... this is as efficient as I could see it in my head in a normal sheetmetal shop:
1. guillotine strips
2. use custom form punch on a metalworker to radius the ends and punch holes
3. punch 90 degree bend in one end
4. hand form the U shape around a form jig
And that's assuming your tooling is minted sharp so you don't have sharp edges to deburr... might get it with a tumbler, not sure...
£2/ea is probably not a bad figure to start from...
Agreed.
I am meeting him later to talk about it. I want to drill into it a bit more and work out what he actually wants / needs and what the best way is.
Personally buying them in is a better option. Even if it means sitting for a day or so picking the rubber off.
It’s all very odd but till I speak with him I won’t know any more.
Munkul
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The most expensive part of the operation would be a custom form punch for the ends... you could get by with a generic radius punch and a hole punch, with properly set up fences, but you're then turning one operation into 3 operations, and ironworkers aren't the fastest moving things...
A better option might be to laser cut them, cutting out 3 operations altogether, assuming you can get a tidy finish on thin stainless... and definitely tumble them. The 90 deg fold is dead easy and quick on any sort of machine with a fence/backstop, and then you're left with the U bend. A custom form tool for this would be easy and cheap to make, and assuming 1mm or less, it'll be a hand operation with suitable fences.
Not that I'd want to do the job in the slightest, even at a decent rate... but it intrigues me to work out how I'd manage to do it most efficiently
and £2/each would make it pay, if you did it just right... be plenty boring after the first 50, though!
A better option might be to laser cut them, cutting out 3 operations altogether, assuming you can get a tidy finish on thin stainless... and definitely tumble them. The 90 deg fold is dead easy and quick on any sort of machine with a fence/backstop, and then you're left with the U bend. A custom form tool for this would be easy and cheap to make, and assuming 1mm or less, it'll be a hand operation with suitable fences.
Not that I'd want to do the job in the slightest, even at a decent rate... but it intrigues me to work out how I'd manage to do it most efficiently
and £2/each would make it pay, if you did it just right... be plenty boring after the first 50, though!don't forget to factor in the cost of the faffing about making tooling, and the tooling material costs in any estimate you give him..... easy to forget, what little margin was left went out the window... I know that from personal experience.
James1979
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Its more the 'can I do it' and 'how' than actually wanting to do it so I am there with you on that one.The most expensive part of the operation would be a custom form punch for the ends... you could get by with a generic radius punch and a hole punch, with properly set up fences, but you're then turning one operation into 3 operations, and ironworkers aren't the fastest moving things...
A better option might be to laser cut them, cutting out 3 operations altogether, assuming you can get a tidy finish on thin stainless... and definitely tumble them. The 90 deg fold is dead easy and quick on any sort of machine with a fence/backstop, and then you're left with the U bend. A custom form tool for this would be easy and cheap to make, and assuming 1mm or less, it'll be a hand operation with suitable fences.
Not that I'd want to do the job in the slightest, even at a decent rate... but it intrigues me to work out how I'd manage to do it most efficiently
It won't be 4000 at once which is slightly less soul destroying. Batches of 400 I think so that's not so bad. Also I can do 100 here and there around other things once I am ahead of the first batch.
James1979
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Only thing that worries me about that is the grade / quality of stainless. I dont want to be going down warranty claim when the 'stainless' starts rusting next winter.
Probably most cost effective way around it if it all goes to plan though
James1979
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The plot thickens......
So they are 2mm thick, and they are to hold solar panels onto a frame. There is a grant for the scheme whereby everything possible has to be made here to support the local economy, so that's why I was approached not China.
As they are 2mm thick the usual rubber coated ones are not suitable.
I have cut the flat shape on the plasma and after 2 hours of buggering about development I have made a tool and a successful prototype. Customer is happy. 3999 more to do.
Many thanks to the suggestions on here - really made a massive difference so cheers all. I need to dial in the cut a bit more and refine that part of it but its the shape we were going for today. That has been achieved.
Some pics:
Flypress should be here soon which will speed up the 90 deg bend. Also the Mk2 version of the bender will have the centre former and the wiper all lift up in one go to make reloading quicker.
My only real concern is that the HAZ around the edge of the stainless is now not stainless? Do I need to passivate this? Was just going to use the usual brush on stuff but if its not required I won't.
As far as the solar farm goes, I am not concerned. The design has been approved by a few people with various 'ologies' and they have signed various things to say it will be safe.
So they are 2mm thick, and they are to hold solar panels onto a frame. There is a grant for the scheme whereby everything possible has to be made here to support the local economy, so that's why I was approached not China.
As they are 2mm thick the usual rubber coated ones are not suitable.
I have cut the flat shape on the plasma and after 2 hours of
Many thanks to the suggestions on here - really made a massive difference so cheers all. I need to dial in the cut a bit more and refine that part of it but its the shape we were going for today. That has been achieved.
Some pics:
Flypress should be here soon which will speed up the 90 deg bend. Also the Mk2 version of the bender will have the centre former and the wiper all lift up in one go to make reloading quicker.
My only real concern is that the HAZ around the edge of the stainless is now not stainless? Do I need to passivate this? Was just going to use the usual brush on stuff but if its not required I won't.
As far as the solar farm goes, I am not concerned. The design has been approved by a few people with various 'ologies' and they have signed various things to say it will be safe.
James1979
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Cheers. Group effort
