- Thread starter Brad93
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mike os
just a little insane.....
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While pat is not a "legal requirement" PUWER requires you to maintain equipment in a safe and serviceable condition. PAT is largely a mechanism and process for attaining this level of care.
There is a requirement for periodic inspection and testing, and that a record of said items is kept and kept up to date, along with an equipment log that covers all portable electrical equipment and its current status... ie in service, repair or retired/binned, testing , maintenance....
basically using a PAT system allows you to achieve this.
and its never an issue until something happens when the HSE wade in wanting to see your service records... and you dont have any.
There is a requirement for periodic inspection and testing, and that a record of said items is kept and kept up to date, along with an equipment log that covers all portable electrical equipment and its current status... ie in service, repair or retired/binned, testing , maintenance....
basically using a PAT system allows you to achieve this.
and its never an issue until something happens when the HSE wade in wanting to see your service records... and you dont have any.
julianf
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It was some time ago that i had any dealings in the field, but my memory was that test record keeping (as in beyond the sticker itself), again, was only a stipulation imposed (or otherwise) by insurers.
Ie not having the database does not invalidate the validity of the test.
Or -
(Again, from memory) - Its perfectly acceptable (again, dependant on insurers) to conduct a proper test, apply the sticker, and that's that - job 100% done.
The sticker applies only for the instant of the test. Its signed and dated, and confirms the appliance was safe at the instant of the test. Logically, what would any further record add to that?
Brad93
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What courses did you do?
mike os
just a little insane.....
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You need to keep records of suitable inspection and testing to satisfy various legislation, the exact form is not specified but needs to be there.
Like so much uk law hse advisories, cop's, best practice, guidelines etc effectively have the weight of law because of the acts they try to simplify for us mortals.
So in this case having gear pat, managed properly means you can demonstrate compliance rather than trying to show you were right in court. Simple process that has official weight vs bespoke method that may be superior but you need to demonstrate that in the face of severe criticism and possibly criminal prosecution ... for me its a no brainer, just get it tested and right the cost off as a business expense
Like so much uk law hse advisories, cop's, best practice, guidelines etc effectively have the weight of law because of the acts they try to simplify for us mortals.
So in this case having gear pat, managed properly means you can demonstrate compliance rather than trying to show you were right in court. Simple process that has official weight vs bespoke method that may be superior but you need to demonstrate that in the face of severe criticism and possibly criminal prosecution ... for me its a no brainer, just get it tested and right the cost off as a business expense
bigegg
Scream Not Working Because Space Make Deaf
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One of my local charities sent one of their employees to do the course for that very reason.
Her name is actually Pat!
WorkshopChris
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This sort of thing drives me mad and goes against the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989, It needs to be based on Risk, not a calendar date.
The number of places that are leaving themselves wide open for prosecution in the event of an accident or death from a piece of electrical equipment.
All they have is the list of equipment with the number and the log to say its all tested once a year, yet not a single risk assessment of how the equipment is used or maintained throughout the year.
How can the microwave that sits on the kitchen worktop from one year to the next and never moves, need the same inspection and testing routine as the extension leads that are used every day and shut indoors and driven over? Especially when the record shows that each year they fail and require replacement or repair. How long have they been in that condition?
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/hsr25.pdf
https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsg107.pdf
Exuptoy
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In fairness the onus is on the tester to decide the duration until the next test. If items are used in anger and dragged around like said extension leads etc then you can reduce it to say 3 months and your microwave can be tested every 2 years. The risk assessment can be performed by the competent person carrying out the tests.
willie.macleod
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Just to thrown another one out there, the microwave also needs a separate leakage test (another test device required!) - it isn't just the electrical test that it is likely to fail, the door seals can take a hammering and allow excess leakage if well used/abused. I agree that the general principle that the test dates should be based on real data and not just a token 12 month basis, this is where decent equipment records can help deciding what testing periods should be. FWIW kitchen stuff is often more likely to fail testing than most office stuff!
brightspark
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machine . the stickers of ebay more like
brightspark
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I used to do over 2000 a year and jacked it in .you cant properly test an item for 50 pence 
working the hourly rate out at 25 quid an hour you would have to test 50 . a sole destroying job that monkeys can do
working the hourly rate out at 25 quid an hour you would have to test 50 . a sole destroying job that monkeys can doWe have customers who insist on PAT testing everything, they even test 60kg servers that are fixed into racks in a secure data centre. When they insist on doing that I always ask them when what PAT stands just for my own amusement. At one site they had a guy who took the job very seriously and had no idea I was winding him up so explained how it all worked.
Matchless
I started with nothing, still have most of it left
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In my car repair workshop I used yellow cable for all leads on portable equipment, drills, grinders etc. when questioned about it by the factory inspector or similar I said I did it because we only had black insulation tape and then I could see if one of my muppets had chopped a lead and taped it up, also I had a very large drum of yellow! we generally did not have any 110v equipment, we did have everything on earth leakage ring mains,
Not wishing to play the devil's advocate but as has been pointed out, the test is only applicable to that moment in time just like your car MOT. It's probably useful in an office for the leads to computers and the like as in general there is probably little chance of these being damaged but in an industrial workshop there's plenty of chance for subsequent damage. In the event of an electrical accident, do the HSE look at the fact that a PAT regime is in place and nothing else. Surely the emphasis must be on the person using that appliance to have enough nous to not plug it in if there is an obvious physical fault just like a person getting into their car which has an MOT but a clear fault. I would very much like to see how this all stands up in court. Plenty of people get prosecuted for having unsafe motor vehicles.
I've never had my tools tested (except when some were left in a clients workshop when they were having a PAT tester in and he didn't realise that they were not owned by the client).
I always check my own electrical equipment and replace flexes, plugs etc as necessary. Primarily I do this so that I don't have a problem with a bit of kit when I'm working but also gives me the added confidence that I'm safe. I rarely use other peoples tools even when offered to but a few weeks back when working in someone else's workshop needed a grinder for a couple of seconds and it was pouring down so asked if I could use one of theirs which was plugged in and near to where I was working. Picked it up, turned it on and nothing happened. One of the staff said 'you need to wiggle the flex - its got an intermittent fault' . I then decided to brave the rain and go and get mine to use. The grinder had a current test sticker on the cable but was still in use in what I considered to be a dangerous condition.Wonder who would have been to blame if I carried on using that grinder.
I've never had my tools tested (except when some were left in a clients workshop when they were having a PAT tester in and he didn't realise that they were not owned by the client).
I always check my own electrical equipment and replace flexes, plugs etc as necessary. Primarily I do this so that I don't have a problem with a bit of kit when I'm working but also gives me the added confidence that I'm safe. I rarely use other peoples tools even when offered to but a few weeks back when working in someone else's workshop needed a grinder for a couple of seconds and it was pouring down so asked if I could use one of theirs which was plugged in and near to where I was working. Picked it up, turned it on and nothing happened. One of the staff said 'you need to wiggle the flex - its got an intermittent fault' . I then decided to brave the rain and go and get mine to use. The grinder had a current test sticker on the cable but was still in use in what I considered to be a dangerous condition.Wonder who would have been to blame if I carried on using that grinder.
That's the sort of thing that a local firm could do for nothing for a bit of publicity. Would cost them a couple of hours tops.
