please advise on total loss blasting?

[Dcal]

Don't you get issues with the ferrous particles blasted off, and now in the grit, being embedded in the alloy and rusting?

Very valid point.
It depends if I'm painting it or not.
I just got some Cerakote to try out, I think I will need to get new (extra fine) media for that.
A coat of epoxy should seal any iron in and the surface profile should more than make up for the contamination.
If I was leaving it raw it would certainly be an issue.
I've some TH2s that were stripped years ago and are near the top of the to do list, I'd be more worried about the metal from the brake pads on them.

 

[Blue Chips]

Blasting with sand is not safe

I never use sand for blasting. Free/crystalline silica is very bad stuff.
And I always wear all appropriate PPE with any blasting media.
Here's an OSHA (US Dept. of Labor, Occupational Safety and Health Administration) article about crystalline silica.
https://www.osha.gov/silica-crystalline

 

[brightspark]

If you've got neighbours the usual UK town distance, and you are blasting with anything outside . . . you will probably very soon be having loud conversations with them about crap all over their hose/car/garden/washing/kids/cat/dog.

i sandblasted my previous semi house the only thing i had to do was sweep it all up from the neighbors garden and clean there windows they wernt bothered . i ran a hire business from home as well and just let the neighbors have stuff free so they never complained

 

[brightspark]

Don't you get issues with the ferrous particles blasted off, and now in the grit, being embedded in the alloy and rusting?

use kiln dried on all ally parts and only use once .it powders down after 1st use and not worth recovering you can use it to resand the block paving though

 

[ArAKern]

From another DIY setup. Here is my experience. (Most of the point have been covered already but...)
It will be slow with limited CFM ie single 3hp compressor.
It is monumentally messy. I blast in a tent in a tent and still it gets everywhere. (If you have a white bathroom go to the gym and shower).
Use a proper blast media for a chassis I have been using J Blast supper fine.
I recycle the media about 3 times before you are just pushing dust.
Sieve everything that goes in the pot even new media. (Blockages are a pain).
I use a e-bay blast hood with a air feed and a 3m respirator with P3 filters (the are feed is mostly to stop it misting up)
Use thin acetate sheets as a sacrificial layer to any hood or mask you ware.
Seam sealer or anything rubbery is a pain to remove easier to scrape or burn it off first before blasting.
The system requires learning and tuning don't expect it to run smoothly at first.

For me the DIY route works well enough for me and could easily cope with blasting a chassis.

 

[fizzy]

I would be very careful blasting whilst on the vehicle. Do you really want that nasty grit in propshaft UJs etc etc. Tape everything up first.
My 14cfm 3hp compressor does the job just about. Runs off a normal 13amp socket.
Best grit I have used is very heavy black stuff.
I have used sand in the past - using a gas mask of course. It turns the whole area into the Sahara desert. The black stuff is much denser and drops to the ground straight away.
I use an Avon S10 gas mask but you need to cover the lenses or they soon get wrecked.

 

[bricol]

use kiln dried on all ally parts and only use once .it powders down after 1st use and not worth recovering you can use it to resand the block paving though

No thanks.

Around the world, anything with more than 1% free silica is banned from use for blasting articles for links to some big health issues, including in the UK. Kiln dried sand is 95% plus silica . . . Now I only got a "B" at Maths O-level (a year early admittedly,) but even I can work out that's quite a lot. And probably more than 1%.

Now I do a lot of stuff that could be dangerous - but having seen people suffering with respiratory issues, I have no wish to deliberately join them, even from irregular use of sand as a media. I'm not convinced any mask I can buy will seal to my challenging visigog well enough, or filter well enough.

 

[Parm]

No thanks.

Around the world, anything with more than 1% free silica is banned from use for blasting articles for links to some big health issues, including in the UK. Kiln dried sand is 95% plus silica . . . Now I only got a "B" at Maths O-level (a year early admittedly,) but even I can work out that's quite a lot. And probably more than 1%.

Now I do a lot of stuff that could be dangerous - but having seen people suffering with respiratory issues, I have no wish to deliberately join them, even from irregular use of sand as a media. I'm not convinced any mask I can buy will seal to my challenging visigog well enough, or filter well enough.

Thanks

 

[8ob]

Thanks

Parmster you seem to be up to speed on this, aside of the obvious emphasis on PPE what readily available, effective and reasonably priced general purpose blasting medium ticks all the boxes?

Bob

 

[Parm]

Parmster you seem to be up to speed on this, aside of the obvious emphasis on PPE what readily available, effective and reasonably priced general purpose blasting medium ticks all the boxes?

Bob

I am sort of ish. I can tell you what you definitely shouldn’t be using.

As for the other stuff there are just too many variables dependant upon person choice, kit set up and job demands

 

[Parm]

No thanks.

Around the world, anything with more than 1% free silica is banned from use for blasting articles for links to some big health issues, including in the UK. Kiln dried sand is 95% plus silica . . . Now I only got a "B" at Maths O-level (a year early admittedly,) but even I can work out that's quite a lot. And probably more than 1%.

Now I do a lot of stuff that could be dangerous - but having seen people suffering with respiratory issues, I have no wish to deliberately join them, even from irregular use of sand as a media. I'm not convinced any mask I can buy will seal to my challenging visigog well enough, or filter well enough.

A big thing we are seeing is a massive rise in silicosis where folk are working with engineered stone which is almost 100%. It’s becoming more common as it’s cheaper than the real stuff and quite fashionable.

This first emerged in Australia where artificial stone had been around for quite a while. They have the highest rate of silicosis and cancer in the stone worker group than anywhere else in the world

When you create an aerosol of sand the heavier stuff falls out quite quickly. The lighter stuff stays suspended in the air for quite a while, often hours. When any RPE is removed this lighter stuff is readily inhalable. The dust is in the respirable fraction and gets to the alveolar air sacs in the lungs where gases transfer to the blood. Scarr tissue forms and prevents gas exchange. It’s a horrible way to die without cure. All made worse if you are a smoker

 

[AKN]

I would be very careful blasting whilst on the vehicle. Do you really want that nasty grit in propshaft UJs etc etc. Tape everything up first.

Some years ago my father’s car was being repaired and they set fire to some of the sound insulation, they used a powder extinguisher on it. We got the car back with some new switches for lights and wipers but found everything else didn’t work. It took me a couple of weekends stripping and cleaning all the electrics, fortunately this was a time with simple cars. I hate to think of the problems you could be giving yourself if this is a modern complex truck.
You don’t say the vintage of your truck but based on this I would strongly advise against blasting a partially stripped vehicle. I’ve used a needle descaler and the usual sanding tools to good effect on my Classic Renage Rover chassis.

 

[julianf]

I'm not convinced any mask I can buy will seal to my challenging visigog well enough, or filter well enough.

If you wore a perfectly sealing air fed mask, I think you would literally blow up!

Can someone explain to me how isocyanate use with air fed masks is entirely acceptable, and, indeed, recommended, however, a positive pressure mask is entirely unsuitable for silicates?

I'm really just asking, as, it seems to me that they would both work equally well, but, from the multiple comments here, the implication is that positive pressure masks work in one toxic environment but not in the other, and I can't quite work out why this should be?

If someone could explain it to me, that would be great.

Thank you.

 

[Dcal]

Parm does what he always does which is pretend he knows everything but gives little practical advice as to what you can do to protect yourself apart, from not doing anything.
In the absence of the armchair expert I suppose us idiots will have to try in our own simple ways to advise.

@Kram has already hit the nail on the head with his post.

If you use sand, the fine particles will stay in the enviroment weeks later, when your under car doing unrelated work without the mask.

As Kram said the big issue will be the way the very fine (and most hazardous) particles of sand stay about in the atmosphere after you take your air fed mask off.
They don’t react with anything so will remain active and hazardous for as long as they hang about.
If it's properly specified and set up, your air fed breathing kit will protect you while you are blasting.
However the very fine dust will be on you, your clothes and everything else for a long time.
Also you will probably spread the dust to your neighbours and people you live with (if you have any)

For the cost of low silica blast media I personally don’t think it's worth the risk.
Part of the confusion here is what kiln dried sand is.
It could be anything depending on the sand pit it came from so you have no real idea of the chemical makeup but it will probably be mostly silica.
There are sands that can be used for blasting (Garnet for example) but they are more expensive than most other standard blast media. (They are bloody brilliant though)
Any proper blast media will come with a data sheet and will be approved for blasting.
With kiln dried sand you are in the dark.

With 2k paints it’s when they are aerosol and active that they are so dangerous, once they cure the risk reduces massively so they don’t remain as hazardous for that long.
Silica is like asbestos and will be hazardous until it is taken out of the atmosphere, even brushng it up is a known risk factor.

 

[brightspark]

its nowhere near as bad when you wear a proper air fed blast helmet outside no matter what abrasive you use .just go look on on any roadworks or building sites and there all merrily cutting away concrete and blocks that all contain silica sand ground down virtualy none of them wear masks of any description and you cant see them for the cloud of dust. i certainy dont use one without a decent mask or go in a room where its happening the dust is just sat there on top of everything for weeks waiting to drop on you so i certainly dont have a problem using a pressurized hood thats made for the job i bet theres a lot of blasting being done on structures removing red lead paint as for sand use its up to the individual that has been told the facts to make his own mind up if he uses it or not

 

[Parm]

Parm does what he always does which is pretend he knows everything but gives little practical advice as to what you can do to protect yourself apart, from not doing anything.
In the absence of the armchair expert I suppose us idiots will have to try in our own simple ways to advise.

@Kram has already hit the nail on the head with his post.


As Kram said the big issue will be the way the very fine (and most hazardous) particles of sand stay about in the atmosphere after you take your air fed mask off.
They don’t react with anything so will remain active and hazardous for as long as they hang about.
If it's properly specified and set up, your air fed breathing kit will protect you while you are blasting.
However the very fine dust will be on you, your clothes and everything else for a long time.
Also you will probably spread the dust to your neighbours and people you live with (if you have any)

For the cost of low silica blast media I personally don’t think it's worth the risk.
Part of the confusion here is what kiln dried sand is.
It could be anything depending on the sand pit it came from so you have no real idea of the chemical makeup but it will probably be mostly silica.
There are sands that can be used for blasting (Garnet for example) but they are more expensive than most other standard blast media. (They are bloody brilliant though)
Any proper blast media will come with a data sheet and will be approved for blasting.
With kiln dried sand you are in the dark.

With 2k paints it’s when they are aerosol and active that they are so dangerous, once they cure the risk reduces massively so they don’t remain as hazardous for that long.
Silica is like asbestos and will be hazardous until it is taken out of the atmosphere, even brushng it up is a known risk factor.

I just need to clarify from your posts.

If your suggesting sand is a suitable media then you can advise

If However you think this this is a bad idea then I’m happy to help out

The internet is full of experts, some are armchair based on google or sheer ignorance, others are based knowing stuff for real

Eg, bright spark always says he’s used kiln dried sand for blasting, very good at its job, but not so much for his health

I’m no arm chair expert, I do this for a living, have done for nearly 30 years.

But, quite si p,I cannot change the world through an Internet forum

I know what’s good and what isnt, but sadly most folk do t want to hear the right thing

Over to the internet experts

 

[Dcal]

I just need to clarify from your posts.

If your suggesting sand is a suitable media then you can advise

If However you think this this is a bad idea then I’m happy to help out

The internet is full of experts, some are armchair based on google or sheer ignorance, others are based knowing stuff for real

Eg, bright spark always says he’s used kiln dried sand for blasting, very good at its job, but not so much for his health

I’m no arm chair expert, I do this for a living, have done for nearly 30 years.

But, quite si p,I cannot change the world through an Internet forum

I know what’s good and what isnt, but sadly most folk do t want to hear the right thing

Over to the internet experts

Parm, Sand can be used and is approved for blasting.
That’s just a fact.
If it is suitable for blasting it will (amongst other things) have less than 1% free silica and will have a data sheet and chemical analysis supporting that.

It is also a fact that silica sand is banned for use as a blast media in GB. (and lots of other places)
The problem is sandblasting was historically carried out with silica sand and the terms "sand blasting" and "abrasive blasting" have become interchangeable (like hover and vacuum) when they are not.
The HSE doesn’t help by referring to "Sand" when they mean "Silica Sand"

You are a H&S professional and I fully support your efforts to provide the correct information in regard to the legislation and best practice in place.
I also fully understand that by identifying yourself as a H&S professional (which I applaud as you don’t get many sticking their heads above the parapet) you are limited in the advice you can give on an open forum.
By armchair expert I was disingenuously referring to the impression I have that you do not have a practical background (except where cooking is concerned) and have not used a blast pot in anger. There is nothing wrong with that and if I am misrepresenting you I apologise.
However it's equally valid for someone with practical experience to chip in as well.

I did not (and do not) disagree with your first post and I think it is sound advice (if a little misleading.)
It was your second post that I took umbrage with as I feel it misrepresented my position and just adds to the general misinformation regarding blasting.
I'm sure my first post could have been better worded but I also think it is unfortunate that you feel the need to attack anyone who you perceive does not agree 100% with your position.
I think there are better way to increase understanding without resorting to personal insults and I am certain that both our positions with regard to "sandblasting" and most other things H&S, are closer that the discourse in this thread might suggest.

 

[Parm]

Parm, Sand can be used and is approved for blasting.
That’s just a fact.
If it is suitable for blasting it will (amongst other things) have less than 1% free silica and will have a data sheet and chemical analysis supporting that.

It is also a fact that silica sand is banned for use as a blast media in GB. (and lots of other places)
The problem is sandblasting was historically carried out with silica sand and the terms "sand blasting" and "abrasive blasting" have become interchangeable (like hover and vacuum) when they are not.
The HSE doesn’t help by referring to "Sand" when they mean "Silica Sand"

You are a H&S professional and I fully support your efforts to provide the correct information in regard to the legislation and best practice in place.
I also fully understand that by identifying yourself as a H&S professional (which I applaud as you don’t get many sticking their heads above the parapet) you are limited in the advice you can give on an open forum.
By armchair expert I was disingenuously referring to the impression I have that you do not have a practical background (except where cooking is concerned) and have not used a blast pot in anger. There is nothing wrong with that and if I am misrepresenting you I apologise.
However it's equally valid for someone with practical experience to chip in as well.

I did not (and do not) disagree with your first post and I think it is sound advice (if a little misleading.)
It was your second post that I took umbrage with as I feel it misrepresented my position and just adds to the general misinformation regarding blasting.
I'm sure my first post could have been better worded but I also think it is unfortunate that you feel the need to attack anyone who you perceive does not agree 100% with your position.
I think there are better way to increase understanding without resorting to personal insults and I am certain that both our positions with regard to "sandblasting" and most other things H&S, are closer that the discourse in this thread might suggest.

You are wrong, very very wrong

But I’ll leave it here now as I can’t be bothered to argue anymore

The correct advice is out there for anyone that’s interested

 

[Parm]

Parm, Sand can be used and is approved for blasting.
That’s just a fact.

We will have to disagree with this

I’m now out of this discussion as I can’t be bothered anymore more, there’s better things to do than to argue over the internet

All the information is available on the internet for folk that want to know

Over and out

 

[8ob]

We will have to disagree with this

I’m now out of this discussion as I can’t be bothered anymore more, there’s better things to do than to argue over the internet

All the information is available on the internet for folk that want to know

Over and out

Playing devil's advocate a bit here Parmster. Its all well and good the HSE dishing out the "donts" but pointing folk at an internet which is full of lies,half truths and myths for clarity is leaving them enough rope to hang themselves. These departments have enough money and info thrown at them to at the very least be in a position to research/advise on products. By the way Parm you are an ok guy until you get on the sauce at night.

Bob