please advise on total loss blasting?

[8ob]

We will have to disagree with this

I’m now out of this discussion as I can’t be bothered anymore more, there’s better things to do than to argue over the internet

All the information is available on the internet for folk that want to know

Over and out

Playing devil's advocate a bit here Parmster. Its all well and good the HSE dishing out the "donts" but pointing folk at an internet which is full of lies,half truths and myths for clarity is leaving them enough rope to hang themselves. These departments have enough money and info thrown at them to at the very least be in a position to research/advise on products. By the way Parm you are an ok guy until you get on the sauce at night.

Bob

 

[Parm]

By the way Parm you are an ok guy until you get on the sauce at night.

But it’s only 1335 hrs now, lol

 

[Munkul]

Sand can be used and is approved for blasting.
That’s just a fact.
If it is suitable for blasting it will (amongst other things) have less than 1% free silica and will have a data sheet and chemical analysis supporting that.

If it's sand approved for blasting, it will NOT be "sand" as most people know it, as it will NOT be made of quartz (ie... pure Silica).
It will be Garnet, or crushed glass, or aluminium oxide, or any number of other types of mineral that look/act like sand.

<1% silica sand means it has less than 1% FREE silica. Meaning it has been cleaned from the smallest particles. Good for things like children playing in.
Guess what happens when you blast that sand though... you create more free silica as the particles break down into smaller bits

Anyone selling silica sand "approved for blasting" deserves a visit from Parm and his mates... minus the biscuits.

 

[Dcal]

Funny how Parm always stops arguing when he is indisputable in the wrong.
He is wrong because he doesn’t appear to even know what sand is.
Someone in the HSE must have told him their narrow definition of sand, so that seems to be about as far as his knowledge and understanding goes.

Sand is just a particle grading term (between gravel and silt) so any naturally occurring material that is within that grading curve is classed as a sand.
Garnet and Olivine are just two examples of sands that are mostly dug out of sand pits, processed, approved and used for sand blasting.

Because of the misinformation (added to by Parm) and the bad press silica sand quite rightly has, most people think sand means silica sand. It does not.
The manufacturers, not unreasonably, tend to not call them sands but blasting abrasives.
That’s fair enough but it doesn’t stop them being sands.

There are lots of types of sand and the types that are banned for uses as a blast media are any with more than 1% free silica content.
Most (if not all) builders sands have a high level of free silica and are potentially hazardous.
If it hasn't been approved for use as a blast media I'd personally avoid it. which is what I said in my first post, but whatever.

 

[Munkul]

Funny how Parm always stops arguing when he is indisputable in the wrong.
He is wrong because he doesn’t appear to even know what sand is.
Someone in the HSE must have told him their narrow definition of sand, so that seems to be about as far as his knowledge and understanding goes.

Playing devil's advocate here, but it was your fine self who said "I wouldn't be as worried about using sand"

Sand in most people's eyes, especially DIY-ers, is silica sand.... do you ask for "sand" when you order blasting abrasive? Does that datasheet mention "sand" anywhere? I think not...

Come on man, you aren't exactly completely right here either, you're having a go at Parm for not knowing what "sand" is when you don't seem to know yourself either. And saying to a bunch of DIY-ers "sand" is asking for criticism.

 

[brightspark]

But it’s only 1335 hrs now, lol

an early sesh then

 

[Dcal]

Playing devil's advocate here, but it was your fine self who said "I wouldn't be as worried about using sand"

Sand in most people's eyes, especially DIY-ers, is silica sand.... do you ask for "sand" when you order blasting abrasive? Does that datasheet mention "sand" anywhere? I think not...

Come on man, you aren't exactly completely right here either, you're having a go at Parm for not knowing what "sand" is when you don't seem to know yourself either. And saying to a bunch of DIY-ers "sand" is asking for criticism.

I'm not as worried about using sand as Parm, I'm probably not even as worried about using silica sand but I have never used it or recomended it to anyone and I don't intend to start now.
However my main point was why even bother considering using kiln dried sand when "safer" alternatives are cheap and widely available.
You need to have an idea of what to ask for and it is just possible that someone who might have headed to B&Q will now buy approved blast media.
I admit my first post was badly worded but I was just being conservational and I do try to not treat people as idiots.
I did also suggested two cheap blast media that are, in my opinion, much better than silica sand but we can all cherry pick what suits from a post and I've no problem being called out on it.

I agree I am not completely right, but I think there is a better chance of getting some useful information out there and possibly even helping people understand the significant risks if we can have a reasonable conservation (like I think we are) and not just resort to name calling and tantrums like four year olds.

This is a serious subject and deserves serious discussion.

 

[bricol]

We all know "sand blasting" is akin to "Hoover" and vacuuming. And even a little research will suggest you need "media" that isn't actually sand - for blasting "articles".

"Articles" does not include buildings, structural steel etc.

But when someone suggests using "kiln dried sand", then there's not much room for confusions - its sand. Dried. In a kiln. Available for a few quid.

And back before internet and easy research, its what I used in a small recirculating spot blaster. But with easier access to knowledge now, I don't and won't.

To give Parm some credit - he's pointed out the known facts and dangers of using sand containing free silica. Medical research since early-ish last century points out its really bad idea. There is no discussion. Its bad. Proven by people being very ill and dying.

And he's pointed out without knowing the specifics of application, use, ventilation, air supply, filtration, its impossible to recommend a generic answer to what to use and how. You might be using an industrial cabinet, in a well filtered, well air supplied area, wearing a full on sealed suit and breathing gear, passing through a some form of decontamination procedure before dis-robing to absolutely minimise the risk of breathing tiny tiny particles . . . and I might be using a 150 quid ebay cabinet that leaks from every seam, wearing my office clothes and a paper mask from Paul'S DIY in town, with two kids and the cat playing in the same 6x4 ft shed where the cabinet is . . .

No real reason to get into whether "sand" is SAND. Use proper blasting media in your blasting cabinet. Which isn't sand from your local builders merchant.

HSE website has a lot of info - the blasting media companies have, the decent blasting cabinet companies too - read it and follow - or ignore if you want as you've done it for ten years with no effects . . . but in ten years time . . . or even next week . . . you might wish you hadn't.