Pigeon_Droppings2
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Had a busy day down the garage today....lots of new masking up and sheeting.
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Pigeon_Droppings2
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Then finally it was on with the colour...MrC did the painting not me....although I did help moving the air hose out of the way and doing the panel heating.
I was surprised how glossy it dried....for some reason I was expecting it to be more like a rattle can finish I guess. We did get a couple of runs that will need sorting out but all in all I have to say it was a great day.
I was surprised how glossy it dried....for some reason I was expecting it to be more like a rattle can finish I guess. We did get a couple of runs that will need sorting out but all in all I have to say it was a great day.
jpmillermatic
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wow, big milestone!....very nice.
JP
JP
Pigeon_Droppings2
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Cheers JP...it feels like all we've done for weeks is flat down primer but finally we have some colour on. Next week am hoping we can get the roof done and then I have to reassemble the interior bits. Still have the doors and boot to prime and paint but definitely feels like we've taken a big step forwards.
jpmillermatic
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a light at the end of the tunnel!
jP
jP
Pigeon_Droppings2
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I can definitely see a light....just hope it's not a train coming the other way through the tunnel. Been doing fiddly jobs...anything to keep me away from that fresh paint. But it's like a magnet...just can't help myself!!
Pigeon_Droppings2
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Almost masked up and ready to start on the roof...fingers crossed we can get it done this week. The drivers rear quarter has the runs...it may need more paint but first we'll give it some the to harden.
Had one small paint reaction on the boot floor...bit annoying.
We've had a few issues with things reacting when the high build has been applied....I have no idea why this is happening but we've so far sorted out by sanding back and re-priming.
I thought the whole point of the bar coat was to prevent the paint from reacting....I'm starting to think that the epoxy primer route might have been better. Live and learn for the next one I guess.
Had one small paint reaction on the boot floor...bit annoying.
We've had a few issues with things reacting when the high build has been applied....I have no idea why this is happening but we've so far sorted out by sanding back and re-priming.
I thought the whole point of the bar coat was to prevent the paint from reacting....I'm starting to think that the epoxy primer route might have been better. Live and learn for the next one I guess.
jpmillermatic
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sometimes the stuff just gets angry. I have had to deal with reactions far too often, usually because of different kinds of plastic surfaces when repainting die cast models....I have found that the primer has to seal the surface and not let any subsequent coats of paint get through or a reaction occurs at the base level and travels right up through all the paint!
or, it could be something totally different!
the figaro is looking great!
JP
or, it could be something totally different!
the figaro is looking great!
JP
Pigeon_Droppings2
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Yea know what you mean JP....this is the reaction we got today...the roof already had a coat of primer. We put a second coat on and this appeared.
I have lots of theories but figured I would post just in case someone on here might have more experience. The process has been
1. flat down original paint and clean with panel wipe
2. 2 coats of bar coat
3. 1 coat of high build primer (still OK at this stage)
4. 2 coats of high build primer...problem arises.
The roof hasn't had any work for at least a week and was fine before we started today so there has been plenty of time between coats. Sanding back to the white underneath, cleaning with panel wipe and then rep-priming seems to cure it. But I just can't work out why it's happening.
We use an IR heater to lightly warm the panels prior to painting...weather here has been great so I'd say the garage is maybe 22 degrees C.
Favorite theories are:
1. we didn't clean the panel before flatting so the process of flatting has cased some contamination?
2. there is an issue with the panel wipe (but the wipe and the paint are both upol!)
3. there is an issue with the thinners....we used Letchler 741 which was applied by the pain supplier along with the base coat. Just surprised the bar coat didn't really work!
So far no issues with the base coat but now I'm worried problems could appear in a few weeks!!
I have lots of theories but figured I would post just in case someone on here might have more experience. The process has been
1. flat down original paint and clean with panel wipe
2. 2 coats of bar coat
3. 1 coat of high build primer (still OK at this stage)
4. 2 coats of high build primer...problem arises.
The roof hasn't had any work for at least a week and was fine before we started today so there has been plenty of time between coats. Sanding back to the white underneath, cleaning with panel wipe and then rep-priming seems to cure it. But I just can't work out why it's happening.
We use an IR heater to lightly warm the panels prior to painting...weather here has been great so I'd say the garage is maybe 22 degrees C.
Favorite theories are:
1. we didn't clean the panel before flatting so the process of flatting has cased some contamination?
2. there is an issue with the panel wipe (but the wipe and the paint are both upol!)
3. there is an issue with the thinners....we used Letchler 741 which was applied by the pain supplier along with the base coat. Just surprised the bar coat didn't really work!
So far no issues with the base coat but now I'm worried problems could appear in a few weeks!!
jpmillermatic
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From my limited and remote experience, (die cast models, but paint layers are paint layers) it could have something to do with how the 2 coats of high build were applied? I know it sounds obvious, but did you follow the manufacturers timelines to a tee? (knowing you , you did!)
Did this reaction appear right away?
for experimentation and to find a possible answer, how far down does the crack go?, I mean, where does the reaction begin? if it goes past the sealer (bar coat) then........what? did the the high build react with the bar coat?)
it does not look like water contamination...but a chemical reaction...any contaminants from the air should probably be more oil based (human )
Ive wondered too about panel wipes, tack cloths, and other issues....but I usually get the angry reaction, like yours, not fish-eye based ones, like you would see with a surface contaminate.
Im thinking its chemical...what if the gas out leaves chemical residue on the surface and we dont clean that off, but like you did, sand it smooth and work back into the paint the chemicals left on its surface?.......
I wonder about this too and consider myself crafty and lucky when a paint job comes out nice! (on the scag, I spot primed, painted and cleared within 1 hour...the window recommended on the can....but normally, I wait longer and that is when I run into problems...but not always!)
I am very hopeful you find a cause...as this would solve many ongoing problems for me, too!
JP
Did this reaction appear right away?
for experimentation and to find a possible answer, how far down does the crack go?, I mean, where does the reaction begin? if it goes past the sealer (bar coat) then........what? did the the high build react with the bar coat?)
it does not look like water contamination...but a chemical reaction...any contaminants from the air should probably be more oil based (human )
Ive wondered too about panel wipes, tack cloths, and other issues....but I usually get the angry reaction, like yours, not fish-eye based ones, like you would see with a surface contaminate.
Im thinking its chemical...what if the gas out leaves chemical residue on the surface and we dont clean that off, but like you did, sand it smooth and work back into the paint the chemicals left on its surface?.......
I wonder about this too and consider myself crafty and lucky when a paint job comes out nice! (on the scag, I spot primed, painted and cleared within 1 hour...the window recommended on the can....but normally, I wait longer and that is when I run into problems...but not always!)
I am very hopeful you find a cause...as this would solve many ongoing problems for me, too!
JP
Pigeon_Droppings2
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Cheers JP...agree I definitely think it's a chemical reaction.
I was reading (on this site) about someone who had a similar problem. He mentioned using acetone to clean his panel off.....it's a pretty strong solvent so I think the idea is to get whatever can't hold up on the panel to come off?
So I gave it a go....what happened was a layer of something came off. No idea what it was but it looked a lot like mud....I suspect it might be a stopper of some description. They seem to have painted straight over the top of it too. I'm wondering if flatting the panel exposed whatever this was....the solvents in the bar coat then softened it and away it went. Painting on the high build then just fed the reaction with even more solvents!
I'm going to leave it a day to settle down and then I'll prime it again and see what happens.....fingers crossed.
MrC the painter said if anything happens to the colour cote then we'll be getting out the DA sander on the lot.
I think the lesson learned is to maybe to do a dot coat of bar coat...and then just build it up slowly rather than putting it straight on in a wet coat.
I was reading (on this site) about someone who had a similar problem. He mentioned using acetone to clean his panel off.....it's a pretty strong solvent so I think the idea is to get whatever can't hold up on the panel to come off?
So I gave it a go....what happened was a layer of something came off. No idea what it was but it looked a lot like mud....I suspect it might be a stopper of some description. They seem to have painted straight over the top of it too. I'm wondering if flatting the panel exposed whatever this was....the solvents in the bar coat then softened it and away it went. Painting on the high build then just fed the reaction with even more solvents!
I'm going to leave it a day to settle down and then I'll prime it again and see what happens.....fingers crossed.
MrC the painter said if anything happens to the colour cote then we'll be getting out the DA sander on the lot.
I think the lesson learned is to maybe to do a dot coat of bar coat...and then just build it up slowly rather than putting it straight on in a wet coat.
jpmillermatic
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My buddy who owns a body shop swears by misting on coats of material when ever he has a suspicion that reactions might occur...weather, gut feelings, whatever...he says it works for him. When I painted the mower deck the other day, I dusted on the color coat until it glossed over and went for clear almost right away. (fit within parameters on the directions from the manufacturer "may clearcoat any time within 1 hour or after 48 hours" ) ...I just kept adding material until it glossed over again...Then I had it where I wanted it...misting more just added to the depth as the paint was just ready to accept the misting and glossed and settled smooth...it worked great.....
I would say take it slow and deliberate with a big block of time at your disposal...no rush...and then back to basics...thats what I do after I throw something across the room and let enough time go by to cool down!
JP
I would say take it slow and deliberate with a big block of time at your disposal...no rush...and then back to basics...thats what I do after I throw something across the room and let enough time go by to cool down!
JP
Pigeon_Droppings2
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Cheers JP...I'm going with your suggestion as I think it's a good idea and worth a try. So I flatted it all back down and stuck about 8 very light coats of the bar stuff back on.
I gave it a blast with the IR heater before and after so I'm hoping that will help it stick and drive out some of the solvents. Tomorrow I will do the same with the high build (very light coats)....will need to feather the edge of the bar coat where it meets the high build over the door. To be honest the roof is fairly flat anyway so I really only need the high build to bring up the areas where I flatted through to the paint underneath.
I'll be very nervous tomorrow I think with the high build as thats where things went horribly wrong the last time around!!
I gave it a blast with the IR heater before and after so I'm hoping that will help it stick and drive out some of the solvents. Tomorrow I will do the same with the high build (very light coats)....will need to feather the edge of the bar coat where it meets the high build over the door. To be honest the roof is fairly flat anyway so I really only need the high build to bring up the areas where I flatted through to the paint underneath.
I'll be very nervous tomorrow I think with the high build as thats where things went horribly wrong the last time around!!
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jpmillermatic
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You have more than probably eliminated the cause of the reaction. looks good!
JP
JP
Pigeon_Droppings2
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Well funny you should say that....we flatter it back and then put another coat of primer on there. Sure enough the cracking started again.
I think this time I've solved it
...this car just doesn't stop giving!! Turns out the idiots who did the previous renovations put about 20 coats of high build on there.
I have absolutely no idea why they did it but they did....there is nothing actually wrong with the roof!! MrC suggested it might have been cheaper for them...throw 20 coats of high build on it and park it in a corner for a week to dry!!
The up side is at least this means it's getting a proper job....luckily they just masked off along the roof line so I don't have to worry about the channels. We'll take the main roof back to bare metal and then prime and paint....job done!
I think this time I've solved it
...this car just doesn't stop giving!! Turns out the idiots who did the previous renovations put about 20 coats of high build on there.I have absolutely no idea why they did it but they did....there is nothing actually wrong with the roof!! MrC suggested it might have been cheaper for them...throw 20 coats of high build on it and park it in a corner for a week to dry!!
The up side is at least this means it's getting a proper job....luckily they just masked off along the roof line so I don't have to worry about the channels. We'll take the main roof back to bare metal and then prime and paint....job done!
jpmillermatic
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What the HEY!.....so it was the high build all the while, lurking underneath your sealed layer?....so was it the curing out that did it? too many layers of different materials?
hope I didnt jinx it by saying it was all good!!!!!!!!!
argggghhhh....nothing like a bit of determination to get a few layers of paint off, eh?
JP
hope I didnt jinx it by saying it was all good!!!!!!!!!
argggghhhh....nothing like a bit of determination to get a few layers of paint off, eh?
JP
Pigeon_Droppings2
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Yea I think they put their high build on by the bucket load....think the combination of heat and thinners may have caused it to move around cracking through the bar coat. It was so soft under there I literally just peeled this off with a scraper.
It was a real downer having to do this.....but not as big a downer it would have been if we'l laid down the top coat and then it had cracked I guess. I will sand it all back to bare metal over the weekend and then prime and start again from scratch. Live and learn I guess....my new rule of thumb is bare metal unless it's in factory paint!!!
It was a real downer having to do this.....but not as big a downer it would have been if we'l laid down the top coat and then it had cracked I guess. I will sand it all back to bare metal over the weekend and then prime and start again from scratch. Live and learn I guess....my new rule of thumb is bare metal unless it's in factory paint!!!
Pigeon_Droppings2
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Only managed a few hours over the weekend...got the roof back to bare metal.
Next will be etch primer and then build back up...luckily the previous "restorer" did a quick job and didn't high build the drains.
I think for Project3 I'm going to strip back the main body panels to bare metal...seems to be a better approach Vs painting over old paint. I think overpainting is probably ok for factory paint maybe but not one that's been messed about with.
Next will be etch primer and then build back up...luckily the previous "restorer" did a quick job and didn't high build the drains.
I think for Project3 I'm going to strip back the main body panels to bare metal...seems to be a better approach Vs painting over old paint. I think overpainting is probably ok for factory paint maybe but not one that's been messed about with.
Pigeon_Droppings2
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Got the bonnet done today...I wasn't as rigorous with my garage cleaning and sheeting so paid the price as I have a few very fine dust particles on the paint. This is dry paint straight out of the gun.....very very impressive indeed (MrC my paint guy did the spraying)....I'm really impressed for a home garage jobbie!!
