Puddle pump. Help!

[Screwdriver]

I've used a clarke puddle pump at work and found it very effective, but you'd still need to get on to the slab with a broom to push the last of the water towards the pump.

Would be the ideal solution but not a cost effective solution for this single use, unless I can get one on the cheap. I promised I would get this done, we agreed a price and I'd be paying for any extras caused by my mistake. I have already charged for a 110v lighting/pumping system (that doesn't work!) but I said I could do it and I stand by what I say...

 

[julianf]

If you were closer, id lend you one of my progressive cavity pumps, but youre not, so i cant.

Ive emptied drums before using those rotary barrel pumps. They will get right down to the last couple of mm of fluid.

I have heard of people fitting car wiper motors to them before.

I dont know how they would work against a head, but if youre pumping to a tank, and then using another pump to do the lifting work, that would not matter.

Im not suggesting it really, but you would be able to move the fluid by turning one of those barrel pumps by hand quicker than your "work" pump will lift it out - you can get a fair flow out of them.

 

[Screwdriver]

If you were closer, id lend you one of my progressive cavity pumps, but youre not, so i cant.

Ive emptied drums before using those rotary barrel pumps. They will get right down to the last couple of mm of fluid.

I have heard of people fitting car wiper motors to them before.

I dont know how they would work against a head, but if youre pumping to a tank, and then using another pump to do the lifting work, that would not matter.

Im not suggesting it really, but you would be able to move the fluid by turning one of those barrel pumps by hand quicker than your "work" pump will lift it out - you can get a fair flow out of them.

Would a manual solution be something you would consider doing with 5,000 litres?

 

[julianf]

That's why i mentioned motorising it. But, yes, if i was stuffed for other options, 5 cube would not be unfathomable.

You can do a 20ltr can in less than 1/2 a min. So 2.5mins for 100 ltrs. 25 mins for 1cube.

I mean, it wouldnt be fun at all, but if my life depended on it....

 

[julianf]

...but, yeah, im sure you could rig up a motor quicker than it would take to pump it by hand!

 

[rtbcomp]

... I guess you could fit a submersible pump inside a big enough wet vac but the different flow rate would also cause issues. The sub pump would be shifting a lot more water than the wet vac.

That's effectively what I was suggesting, the dustbin forms a larger chamber for the wet vac. The sump pump will stop automatically when the water level in the bin is sufficiently low.

 

[8ob]

Sumpless cellar pump http://drymasterpump.com/home2.html

Surely must be able to cobble something like this together this side of the pond !

Bob

 

[ukracer]

What about a carpet cleaner with a pump in the dirty water bucket?

 

[Ton-up]

You could use a small peristaltic type pump. Can pump into a dustbin with a pond pump in. They are designed to run dry and available cheaply.

 

[knighty]

you really need a low point

even if you do a fantastic job of emptying it today, it'll fill up again tomorrow and you'll be back where you started ?

pump it out the best you can with the pump you have, and find the low point and then dig it down a bit... doesn't need to be miles, a couple of inches will do... it's not the final floor level anyway so it won;t be noticed when it's filled in again later on ?


the pump doesn't need to be powerful/fast 5000 litres over 24hours is less than 4litres/min... doesn't matter if you need to leave it running overnight right?


I know it's best to stay away from the clay wall... but what's the floor like there just the other side / inside the doorway? could it be dug down a bit there?

 

[Screwdriver]

@knighty. It wont fill up that quickly because I put a lid on it, ran some guttering with down pipes and built a soakaway the other side of the bunker. It isn't perfectly sealed because until the builders install the glass walkways, it's a flat roof with no fall made out of marine ply. Should be good for a year.

I am not digging down into a steel reinforced concrete tanked basement.

Not going near that wall and its possible the guys who are fitting the shoring might even set it off. If I don't fix this pump in time, they'll probably knock a channel into that recess and allow all five thousand litres to flow into it, compromising the foundations. This is a late Victorian London property. There are no man made foundations, the houses are built directly onto clay.

I might come back Thurday to find it has collapsed....

Like I say, I have to assume there is a plan for a basement pump, I just don't know what it is. This is a temporary measure to simply drain it. I'm guessing the pipe work sticking out of the floor might be something to do with it or the sump plan might be where the aperture is half finished.

 

[bigegg]

Alternative: instead of digging down, can you put something in one half that will displace enough water to increase the depth to where it will pump?
Couple of hundred breeze blocks?

 

[Screwdriver]

Lol. Be easier to to run up and down the stairs with a couple of thousand buckets. But plan B is to make a dam so I can filter debris to keep the pump happy and maybe even brush enough water into a reservoir to get the pump to haul water. A bit of a chore but I would like to get this done over the next couple of days

 

[piman]

Hello Screwdriver,

what we used when draining shallow areas (with a diaphragm pump) was a short length of angle, welded shut with a bit of plate both ends and a hose tail welded in one of the ends . shallow slots were then cut in the edges of the wall. just connect the pump to this device and place it in the water, it sucks down to a depth of the slots cut in the angle. Size is down to your estimation of how much water you want to remove but we generally used 50 mm angle.

Alec

 

[addjunkie]

look for a diaphragm bilge pump for a boat............12 v

 

[voipio]

A submersible pump inside a wet vac would do it, if the pump would fit inside. The head that the sub pump could achieve would be reduced, but it would be possible. Just need to cut holes for the sub pump power cable and outlet pipe, and use putty to seal the gaps.

 

[Pete.]

I know someone who made such a device using a wheelie bin, and wet vac motor and a float-operated submersible. They fitted the suction hose mount to the front of the bin, cut a hole in the lid for the motor and ran the pump wire and outlet hose through bulkhead fittings sealed with silicone. It worked spectacularly well.

Apart from that a proper puddle pump will suck the water down to a few mm depth. 2" is no problem for them at all but you might have to prime it in a bucket or small bin. Fill a bucket up, have your hose (use an air line they pump 2.25 the volume of a 1/2" hose) running up hill all the way, pump the bucket out then un-plug the pump so it starts to back-wash. Dump the pump in the water and plug it back in real quick.

 

[Kram]

Can you drill a hole in the concrete? 20mm or 30mm with a core drill. Knock the centre out, gives you a low point for the pump inlet.

 

[julianf]

Lots of people saying submersible inside a vac, but i do not think this would work.

The vac creates a -ve pressure inside the chamber, which is why the water flows in there in the first place.
Youre then talking about putting a pump inside this -ve pressure environment to move fluid to a higher pressure zone (ie atmospheric). Additionally, there would be a reasonable head.

I mean, it obviously depends how strong the submersible is, but im just a bit dubious.

I still reckon the barrel pump isnt a bad idea to lift off the ground - the handle on them is just held by a grub screw - it would be a quick job to just mount a pulley on there, and a motor somwhere. It does not need to look pretty, or even last longer than a couple of hours - a gaffa tape and cable tie job!

 

[julianf]

Can you drill a hole in the concrete? 20mm or 30mm with a core drill. Knock the centre out, gives you a low point for the pump inlet.

A sump does not really work unless its of some size. Just creating a low point is ok if youre pumping crazy slow, but if youre moving any volume at all, then you will empty a small sump instantly, and it will take time for the fluid to creep back in.

It might work with a tiny peristaltic that did not care about constantly sucking in air, but with anything else, it wont work.

Once the volume is gone, a wet vac will, im sure, finish up anyway.