Puddle pump. Help!

[Pete.]

Lots of people saying submersible inside a vac, but i do not think this would work.

The vac creates a -ve pressure inside the chamber, which is why the water flows in there in the first place.
Youre then talking about putting a pump inside this -ve pressure environment to move fluid to a higher pressure zone (ie atmospheric). Additionally, there would be a reasonable head.
!

It does work, you can buy them. The vac motor produces much less negative than the pump can give positive pressure, probably 2-3x as much. A typical hippo is good for about 10 foot of head but a wet vac won't draw water out of a 10 foot deep hole.

Apart from that you just turn off the vac to run the pump for a bit.

 

[Pete.]

A sump does not really work unless its of some size. Just creating a low point is ok if youre pumping crazy slow, but if youre moving any volume at all, then you will empty a small sump instantly, and it will take time for the fluid to creep back in.

It might work with a tiny peristaltic that did not care about constantly sucking in air, but with anything else, it wont work.

Once the volume is gone, a wet vac will, im sure, finish up anyway.

Again, this is something we do at work a lot. Drill a 8" hole 2-3" deep and dump a puddle sucker into it. Yes it does draw the water down in the sump very quickly but since the pump is centrifugal is still pumps, just at a lower rate and it slurps a lot.

 

[awemawson]

Sump pump placed in a corner, and as the level falls sweep with broad brush into that corner - certainly the sump pump I use to lower my ornamental pond would cope with that down to fractions of an inch.

 

[WorkshopChris]

As pete said you can buy them, i use to use them in plant rooms after pump changes of bursts.
https://www.averncleaningsupplies.c...zPl-3CBZV_5IdVx6RizZZpUcuvNex_XQaAnNSEALw_wcB
Not cheap though.

 

[julianf]

I stand corrected - im thinking at that sort of price, it must be the type of thing that's hire-able?

 

[Barlidge]

I have one of these for draining my above ground pool down to the last mm and then a wet and dry vac to finish it off, surprising how many times the and dry needs emptying with just a mm of water left.

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-psp105-250w-puddle-pump-with-auto-senso/

 

[WorkshopChris]

I stand corrected - im thinking at that sort of price, it must be the type of thing that's hire-able?

HSS used to if i remember also A plant. I have a big wet vac its on the modification list to add a pump inside maybe one day!

 

[Screwdriver]

Sump pump placed in a corner, and as the level falls sweep with broad brush into that corner - certainly the sump pump I use to lower my ornamental pond would cope with that down to fractions of an inch.

Yeah I think tomorrow is when I need to make my mind up and I am leaning towards making up a pool in one corner and running a standard sub pump in the slightly deeper section. Then just brush water up a little ramp into the pond section. Will be a wet and messy job but I can make a liner out of a sheet of plastic on dry ground and just take it down there.

The big issue then is how to deal with all of the debris. Need to make up a sort of filter to surround the pump intake. There's an ideal section under the stairs with three sides already done for me. Might even be able to make it six inches deep which I think will be ideal.

 

[WorkshopChris]

Yeah I think tomorrow is when I need to make my mind up and I am leaning towards making up a pool in one corner and running a standard sub pump in the slightly deeper section. Then just brush water up a little ramp into the pond section. Will be a wet and messy job but I can make a liner out of a sheet of plastic on dry ground and just take it down there.

The big issue then is how to deal with all of the debris. Need to make up a sort of filter to surround the pump intake. There's an ideal section under the stairs with three sides already done for me. Might even be able to make it six inches deep which I think will be ideal.

Would it be possible to make some sort of fine rake to collect as much rubbish before you start sweeping?

 

[awemawson]

My pump has an integral screen that stops me evacuating the gold fish

 

[Screwdriver]

I'll probably use some fine mesh and a ring of rockwool around the pump base. I'll take pictures....

 

[Pete.]

If there's some green builder's netting about then 3 layers of that will keep anything out.

 

[CornishPete]

what are you going to do afterwards to stop it filing up again?

 

[cocker]

A pond vac sucks up water and muck till it's full then turns off while the tank emptys it's self via a simple one way valve , then turns on again .
One of these above a big tank with a sub pump in would do it .

 

[normspanners]

Can't you fit the vacuum cleaner mechanism to a dustbin instead of the lid so it fills the dustbin directly and the sump pump (inside the dustbin) kicks in at the appropriate level?

45 gallon drum, plenty at garages use the henry to create vacuum through the small hole small hole and big pipe to suck water through the other, fill drum then pump up and out. then fill drum again.
best way would be a diesel diaphragm pump, they pump air as well as water and usually have a stone trap built in.
the ones we have, have twin diaphragms so are quite effective, and have a good head.

 

[normspanners]

Would it be possible to make some sort of fine rake to collect as much rubbish before you start sweeping?

dont need it with a diaphragm pump as said they have a stone trap and will pump small stones any way .

 

[normspanners]

with a centrifugal pump they are primed with a vacuum pump,but dont like sucking lots of air most now use an air compressor but a diaphragm will run happily empty just sucking the odd gollup of water.

 

[Pete.]

All of our pumps are centrifugal and they all self-prime and all will work if sucking air with the water.

 

[Screwdriver]

what are you going to do afterwards to stop it filing up again?

I've already done it.

 

[normspanners]

All of our pumps are centrifugal and they all self-prime and all will work if sucking air with the water.

How do they prime then ? they must have either a vacuum pump or compressor to initiate and achieve a vacuum and that is at very limit, is only to about 30ft,also most because of the mech seal dont like running empty and because it causes cavitation that also is not good for the pump it erodes the volute and impellor.
Coz just a centrifical pump alone wont suck, and should not be run with any amount of air.