Recovery Shackles

[Nathan2016]

Nathan
For what you show I should use a 7018. Prep is way more important than the electrode though. Being of no knowledge of your skill level and going off your need to ask I should just advise you buy one or have it made out
In the case of failure during a snatch recovery an object like that could do more than smart a bit!

Hi, yeah I was just asking for a bit of background really. I'll try and find a fabricator local in Sheffield to weld them on for me. It's only two pieces so hopefully wont charge too much. I've had one person say he could weld with his Mig turned up to max but i'm a bit dubious.
Cheers Nathan

 

[winchman]

Personally I would buy one than weld it on as it alters the liability as you are fitting a bespoke manufactured for purpose component rather than some thing you have made.
I would also file a set of calcs away for future reference so you can prove the bumper is up to the job, I too have seen chassis cracks from recovery bumpers and mounting bolts of the wrong grade, oh and the odd bumper snatched off!

 

[winchman]

I have used these in the past
http://www.safetyliftingear.com/pro...6mm/rud-vlbg?gclid=CP_jgc6BrMwCFXEz0wodmWIMSg

 

[dannyp]

you chould weld it on with plain old 6013's s long as whoever is waveing the rod dose it right it's not the weld thats going to go. might rip the bumper of the chassi but that a diffrent problem.

tho personaly if i was doing it i would just mig it on. i see nothing wrng with useing a mig as long as its a big enough mig

 

[Kent]

One inch round to 1/2" plate for a snatch recovery eye is beyond any single phase mig imo
The forces in such a recovery are large and 12 mm is the genrally excepted limit of this sort of kit. OK for other applications but not a snatch eye.

 

[dannyp]

no one said the mig was singel phase or how big it wasent.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

no one said the mig was singel phase or how big it wasent.

No but if it's going to need to be at full chat to weld it, I wouldn't suggest it's the greatest tool for the job. It will be doable multi pass with a 6013 but get someone that knows what they are doing. Have a look around and you'll quickly find the after effects of something that size being sling shotted on the end of a tow rope

 

[dannyp]

what like the big heavy door handel on the frount of my workshop that appears to be held on 6 M16 bolts and looks like the prefect thing to put a chin round and snatch the door with......... thats actualy held on with not a lot, thats been through back window and windscreen of navara once so far.

multirun with a 6013 will hold without problem, 70XX rods may well give a stronger weld but the weld will just rip ou tthe plate your welding the eye to if it's ever pushed to the point of fail. tho 50P says if you did destruction test it it would be the chassi that quit first

 

[Kent]

Hi, yeah I was just asking for a bit of background really. I'll try and find a fabricator local in Sheffield to weld them on for me. It's only two pieces so hopefully wont charge too much. I've had one person say he
could weld with his Mig turned up to max but i'm a bit dubious.

Cheers Nathan

It's here that came from. One assumes he don't mean a big industrial set that could eat it alive and the guy is working from home

To be fair a lot would still reach for a 7018 if three phase was in

Lifting and snatch stuff especially is best done by a qualified person or bought in approved and tested

 

[Bill Edwards]

At the end of the day if it lets go a windscreen won't stop it and nor does a persons head.

You need a pretty powerful MIG for that, no ordinary 'hobby' sub 200a MIG is suitable. 6013 can do it just fine but why not give a little piece of mind and use 7016/8.

What you can be sure of though is that whatever choice of welder or rods, the person doing it must be competent.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

At the end of the day if it lets go a windscreen won't stop it and nor does a persons head.

You need a pretty powerful MIG for that, no ordinary 'hobby' sub 200a MIG is suitable. 6013 can do it just fine but why not give a little piece of mind and use 7016/8.

What you can be sure of though is that whatever choice of welder or rods, the person doing it must be competent.

I understand where you are coming from and of course no reason to not use 7016/8 but even with 6013 you're going to pull the mounting bolts through the chassis leg before the welds give out

 

[winchman]

One thing no one has mentioned is testing.
If I fit a recovery point I would have it load tested and certificated them mark it with a SWL.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I understand where you are coming from and of course no reason to not use 7016/8 but even with 6013 you're going to pull the mounting bolts through the chassis leg before the welds give out

Correct, it's just that using 7016/8 gives a little margin for error in the event of the welder being useless...
In which case they shouldn't be doing it, but most if not all have seen welds that were clearly beyond what a person is capable of, hence I like to recommend overkill.

 

[Kent]

One thing no one has mentioned is testing.
If I fit a recovery point I would have it load tested and certificated them mark it with a SWL.

Commercially you would be a nut job if you didn't
I think it fair to say even those qualified and capable usually wouldn't for their own use

 

[Kent]

Correct, it's just that using 7016/8 gives a little margin for error in the event of the welder being useless...
In which case they shouldn't be doing it, but most if not all have seen welds that were clearly beyond what a person is capable of, hence I like to recommend overkill.

A weld can only be as strong as it's weakest part so for me the tensile strength increase is moot
However these are two fairly meaty parts on short curving runs, cracking would be my fears with 6013 even if you could do fine why would you bother?
A 70 beats the tensile strength of most steels it's used on and 60 is more than enough. Like you say though a little more never hurts

 

[winchman]

Commercially you would be a nut job if you didn't
I think it fair to say even those qualified and capable usually wouldn't for their own use

Lets assume you weld a recovery point to the back of your vehicle, then one day at the beach some one askes you for a tow and you help out, the recovery point comes off and causes some damage, once the legal people find out you are a trades man they will move heaven and earth to make a point of you should have known better and use it against you.

My own opinion on this is.
Only fit purchased points.
Keep the paperwork.
Once fitted have it load tested.
Remember the bumper etc mounts may also need to be load tested.
In my experience it can be cheaper to just drive it round to a lifting gear place, have them fit and test it and just add a few quid to the bill.

 

[123hotchef]

seen flying shackels and recover points before at pay and play sites bloody dangerous if you ask me. people have been killed before when they embed thereself in there skull.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Lets assume you weld a recovery point to the back of your vehicle, then one day at the beach some one askes you for a tow and you help out, the recovery point comes off and causes some damage, once the legal people find out you are a trades man they will move heaven and earth to make a point of you should have known better and use it against you.

Moral implications aside, that's nothing to if someone gets injured or killed.

But, I'm not coded and don't think my college qualifications count for anything useful however I would have no concerns welding on recovery points myself.
I have welded plenty of critical parts before and consider myself competent.
If I wasn't happy (which I perhaps wouldn't be with MIG as that's somewhere I have limited experience with the heavy stuff) I'd be quite alright to hold my hands up and pass it on.

 

[winchman]

Moral implications aside, that's nothing to if someone gets injured or killed.

But, I'm not coded and don't think my college qualifications count for anything useful however I would have no concerns welding on recovery points myself.
I have welded plenty of critical parts before and consider myself competent.
If I wasn't happy (which I perhaps wouldn't be with MIG as that's somewhere I have limited experience with the heavy stuff) I'd be quite alright to hold my hands up and pass it on.

Well said Bill.
My mate has years of structural experience and he knows and can prove his work with calcs, but his experience tells him right from wrong.
Many years ago we looked at making winch bumpers, it was shocking to see some commercially available products that would fail if put to serious use.
In the end it wasn't worth the small profit margin

 

[dannyp]

and the winch bumpers that don't fail if abused cause an even bigger problem