ajlelectronics
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You are very kind. What I really could do with is a shoulder to cry on and someone to watch, to prevent me making it even worse.
- Thread starter ajlelectronics
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You are very kind. What I really could do with is a shoulder to cry on and someone to watch, to prevent me making it even worse.
ajlelectronics
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I got no penetration of the stud whatever, I think that the manifold is such a good heatsink that I can't get it hot enough. I will try again tomorrow and see if I can get some penetration of just the stud, without a nut.
8ob
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You really need to be in spray transfer AJ, this is where the thick washer followed by the nut.comes in. Carry the arc from the washer to the stud.
Bob
ajlelectronics
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zzr1200
Working at 650 ft on open steel work.
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heldtogetherwithblutack
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bit late to this party, no matter, here's my two penneth worth.
For the stud with 5 mm protrusion, countersink or drill the nut out, maintaining the hex, to leave about 3.5-4mm thread remaining and screw onto the stub, leaves a nice clear access to weld path for mig or tig, without any worries of arc wandering to the nuts inside threads now drilled out.
For those longer, similar, but no need to countersink into nut so deep and put a small chamfer on the stud remains. Both give a reletively clear access to complete the weld in one go and get some real heat into the stud.
You can chamfer the short protrusions too, use a thin washer to protect the mating surface.
If flush, countersink or drill nearly through the nut. On steel or iron hold nut in place with a magnet, on aluminium, again use magnet to hold the nut and clamp the magnet to maintain clear access to weld.
For those longer than the nut thickness, wind a nut on after filing/grinding off any plating or rust and hit it with whatever youve got, even a hammer may do, peaning over the stud to lock onto the nut.
When busted deep inside with at least 3 or 4 threads, spin a bolt in a lathe and drill a suitable hole through and square off the threaded end, then use this as a guide to drill into the stud.
Thats the easy ones done, the ones I have had the most trouble with are those where you cant use the above or a propriatory drill guide and there is a need to protect the hole edge from flash or spatter. Various levels of success, and failures, using, short ring of steel tube, clipped winding off a spring, even a wire spring washer, just so long as it's outside is againt the outside of the hole and its not as thick to prevent the nut seating. Anything 6mm and under is going to be a nightmare and do NOT use copper, brass or aluminium as the protector. In the words of at least one wise man on here, don't ask me how I know. edit+ Should also mention not had much success by welding a washer on first, the inner edge rolls back and recedes before you can get a enough heat into the stud for good penetration, especially on the smaller sizes. Thinking about that, it might be viable using a one size down washer, but only when or near flush.
Finaly, if your racing or parading, modify as appropriate for Titanium, stainless or aluminium bolts and if the parts are mega expensive spark or wire erosion is worth considering but that ain't going to help in a paddock.
For the stud with 5 mm protrusion, countersink or drill the nut out, maintaining the hex, to leave about 3.5-4mm thread remaining and screw onto the stub, leaves a nice clear access to weld path for mig or tig, without any worries of arc wandering to the nuts inside threads now drilled out.
For those longer, similar, but no need to countersink into nut so deep and put a small chamfer on the stud remains. Both give a reletively clear access to complete the weld in one go and get some real heat into the stud.
You can chamfer the short protrusions too, use a thin washer to protect the mating surface.
If flush, countersink or drill nearly through the nut. On steel or iron hold nut in place with a magnet, on aluminium, again use magnet to hold the nut and clamp the magnet to maintain clear access to weld.
For those longer than the nut thickness, wind a nut on after filing/grinding off any plating or rust and hit it with whatever youve got, even a hammer may do, peaning over the stud to lock onto the nut.
When busted deep inside with at least 3 or 4 threads, spin a bolt in a lathe and drill a suitable hole through and square off the threaded end, then use this as a guide to drill into the stud.
Thats the easy ones done, the ones I have had the most trouble with are those where you cant use the above or a propriatory drill guide and there is a need to protect the hole edge from flash or spatter. Various levels of success, and failures, using, short ring of steel tube, clipped winding off a spring, even a wire spring washer, just so long as it's outside is againt the outside of the hole and its not as thick to prevent the nut seating. Anything 6mm and under is going to be a nightmare and do NOT use copper, brass or aluminium as the protector. In the words of at least one wise man on here, don't ask me how I know. edit+ Should also mention not had much success by welding a washer on first, the inner edge rolls back and recedes before you can get a enough heat into the stud for good penetration, especially on the smaller sizes. Thinking about that, it might be viable using a one size down washer, but only when or near flush.
Finaly, if your racing or parading, modify as appropriate for Titanium, stainless or aluminium bolts and if the parts are mega expensive spark or wire erosion is worth considering but that ain't going to help in a paddock.
Last edited:
ajlelectronics
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I have seen suggestions of a carbide end mill at 1RPM to destroy the broken bit. Any comments?
Also this, if I had a buzz box!
Drill rod two sizes down, take one end to a point, the either black tape or shrink wrap the sides of the drill rod so only the point make contact with the broken drill bit down the channel.
From welder rod holder clamp on the rod pointed tip down, ground the welder to the work piece, then bond/weld the tip of the drill stock to the broken bit( just go straight down until you get the arch/hear the machine cycle, the release the drill rod from the rod holder.
From there, just spin the mill in reverse to back the broken section back out via the protruding drill rod chucked up.
Also this, if I had a buzz box!
Drill rod two sizes down, take one end to a point, the either black tape or shrink wrap the sides of the drill rod so only the point make contact with the broken drill bit down the channel.
From welder rod holder clamp on the rod pointed tip down, ground the welder to the work piece, then bond/weld the tip of the drill stock to the broken bit( just go straight down until you get the arch/hear the machine cycle, the release the drill rod from the rod holder.
From there, just spin the mill in reverse to back the broken section back out via the protruding drill rod chucked up.
ajlelectronics
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Current state...
Dcal
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Told you you would need a Helicoil but that might need a threaded insert now.
Will the remains of the top stud hammer into the hole you drilled?
If not, get someone to tig a nut to what remains of the old stud and just screw it out. I don't think there is enough meat left for any other type of welding but I could be wrong and people make do with what they have.
If you have someone with a tig sorting the top one just get them to weld a nut to the other one as described before and screw it out.
Will the remains of the top stud hammer into the hole you drilled?
If not, get someone to tig a nut to what remains of the old stud and just screw it out. I don't think there is enough meat left for any other type of welding but I could be wrong and people make do with what they have.
If you have someone with a tig sorting the top one just get them to weld a nut to the other one as described before and screw it out.
That's boogad it.
Now you're into machining that out - maybe making a guide for an end mill and driving it with a hand drill. Any more free hand drilling will just take the hole sideways into the ally.
If youre not in a hurry the alum method might work, but I hear it needs heat, and I've never done it....
With the other one mig a big blob on it, then mig a bolt to the blob, hit the end for as long and as hard as you can, tbar on the bolt, wiggle a bit before extracting.
Now you're into machining that out - maybe making a guide for an end mill and driving it with a hand drill. Any more free hand drilling will just take the hole sideways into the ally.
If youre not in a hurry the alum method might work, but I hear it needs heat, and I've never done it....
With the other one mig a big blob on it, then mig a bolt to the blob, hit the end for as long and as hard as you can, tbar on the bolt, wiggle a bit before extracting.
Pigeon_Droppings2
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I'd drill a hole in a copper sheet...stick it over the top. Then set the torch up with 5mm wire sticking out...stick wire in hole and do 3 second pulse...if it forms a nice blob then repeat until you have a 10mm column of weld blobs.
Copper plate will protect the mating surfaces.
This one was a pig to get out...5 or 6 attempts...also a water pump!
Copper plate will protect the mating surfaces.
This one was a pig to get out...5 or 6 attempts...also a water pump!
Parm
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I’ve been there once upon a time. I feel your pain
Dad gave me some”special” drill bits that could drill other drill bits.
I’m afraid your in for a long game now
Edit: just asked dad, it’s a carbide drill you require. Bigger than the broken drill bit and smaller than the diameter of the stud. Slow and steady speed. Friendly assistant applying suds from a wash bottle
daedalusminos
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Have a look at how I got out of a similar situation herere...
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/thread-repair.93983/#post-1394138
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/thread-repair.93983/#post-1394138
plewlandsbob
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I have removed a lot of broken bolts on tractors and farm machinery. A tip , is to drill down through the bolt, before attacking with the welder. The reason for this , as the weld cools, the bolt is able to contract, just the same as welding a bearing cup , to remove it.
As the nut is cooling, give it a few taps with a hammer, to shock the thread.
But the most important part is to be patient, allow the nut to cool, for a minute, before trying to turn it. Then just work it back and forth, gradually working it out.
As the nut is cooling, give it a few taps with a hammer, to shock the thread.
But the most important part is to be patient, allow the nut to cool, for a minute, before trying to turn it. Then just work it back and forth, gradually working it out.
WorkshopChris
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Both sound like a way to just introduce another harden jump of metal into the problem to be removed at a later date.
Cobbler
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Just an idea, don’t know if it’s feasible or would work but may be worth a try. Grind the cutting edge of a masonry drill in reverse, drill down into the hole in reverse & hopefully it might pick up & wind out the broken drill bit.
ajlelectronics
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I have ordered a selection of carbide end mills to add to my armoury. I made some progress today with some cheap diamond burrs. Until the abrasive went, I managed to get about 6mm down using three bits. I also centred the hole better.
ajlelectronics
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All sorted.
I bought a set of decent end mills...Wouldn't look at it. My best Cobalt bits got nowhere. A set of chocolate masonry drill were bent out of the box, so didn't even bother.
Then I remembered a box of drills bought for me as a gift. It was one of those sets that you only see at the car shows, with a bloke drilling holes in brake discs etc. I put them away at home but found them yesterday and so gave them a try. Talk about knife through butter! I got the job finished, Helicoiled and sealed up inside an hour. Those bits may be no good for any precision work, but they certainly cut well.
I now have a set of end mills I don't need!
This is the drill set, they just look like masonry bits to me...
I bought a set of decent end mills...Wouldn't look at it. My best Cobalt bits got nowhere. A set of chocolate masonry drill were bent out of the box, so didn't even bother.
Then I remembered a box of drills bought for me as a gift. It was one of those sets that you only see at the car shows, with a bloke drilling holes in brake discs etc. I put them away at home but found them yesterday and so gave them a try. Talk about knife through butter! I got the job finished, Helicoiled and sealed up inside an hour. Those bits may be no good for any precision work, but they certainly cut well.
I now have a set of end mills I don't need!
This is the drill set, they just look like masonry bits to me...
