Roll cage welding am I ready??

[chevy2]

I would feel alot safer having the cage bolted in with stainless steel bolts.
You can easily spot and tighten a loose nut and bolt, its hard to spot a loose weld, especially if its painted over.

Welding of a roll cage is perfectly acceptable,
how do you think the brackets that hold any attaching bolts are fixed to the tubes...welded.
Infact, tube framed drag cars are fully welded with NO bolt together joints.
painting of roll cages is accepted in most classes but in any perforance car periodic checks for cracks should be done.

you are not allowed to arc weld a cage for msa events , and the bolts used to fasten/fix the cage in must be a minimum of 8.8 grade so this rules out your stainless ones as well. The blue book recomends that any cage work should be tigged, and if the scruitineer is in any doubt about the quality of work he WILL reject your vehicle when you present it for inspection

Depending on what class and type of tube used in msa, different weld methods are required, mig or tig can be used on steel tube, whereas tig only can be done on chromemoly,
best not to assume but check the rulebook for your chosen class to run in.

 

[dannymac]

I'll do it!

hahaha!!i enjoyed that lol)))))))) Needs a bit of dressing with the grinder though :P

 

[PhillipM]

Nah, just needs a thicker coat of paint!

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

Shame about that welding, Looks a half decent bit of farbication too!

 

[chevy2]

some competition!

 

[brightspark]

some competition!

lol banger racers use an acro prop welded in behind the seat that cage would do u more damage when it fails and pokes u in the ribs

 

[langy]

some competition!

Gary your weld quality has slipped slightly

 

[chevy2]

Gary your weld quality has slipped slightly

The very cheek of you mr Lang,
and there was me thinking i'd show off how my welding has improved!

 

[snowcat]

The non allowance of Arc welding sounds to me that those in charge know little about welding, or even how to inspect it.

The process in any welding job is not important, and all processes present strengths and weakness, Its the knowledge of the welder and the correct use of consumables that will determine the job, and the same results should prevail no matter of what process or mix of process are used.

Arc has been used in just about every crucial industrial application there is, The lads who scrutineer these events must sleep uneasy in there beds thinking about all those atomic power stations thrown together with a stick.

 

[rory1]

my cage on my comp safari landrover was made in the shop with the mig but fitted outside in the yard with the stick, its MSA checked and the cage is logbooked. i didnt have a problem getting it thru scrutineering. i did build it a few years ago but i cannot recall ever seeing that you couldnt use MMA. does anyone have a link to the exact paragraph (if it exists) in the bluebook stating this?

snowcat - i agree wholeheartedly

 

[rob1]

well said snowcat .
im not a betting man but id have a few bucks on most miged cages having atleast 50%
of the welds in dodgy downhand .

 

[PhillipM]

The non allowance of Arc welding sounds to me that those in charge know little about welding, or even how to inspect it.

These are the same people that have a heart attack if you TIG a cage because 'the welds are too small'.....

Can't braze a cage even though it's technically better either because they can't inspect it....

 

[agrimog]

as an ex msa scruitineer I can assure you most of us do know what we are looking at, I have seen plenty of home atempts at welding in cages, and failed them, and as many where i have comented on the quality of the weld. land rovers and blue band are one of the few where arc is accepted, but not one of my favourites, a properly designed, installed , and tigged , built in cds will always be stronger weight for weight than one built in mallable blue band. people do not seem to realise the forces transferred through a multi- point cage, this is one of the reasons your not allowed to braze any joints. if you have any doubts as to the strength of a properly built cage , look at some of the indycar accidents where the guys walk away from 200mph impacts

 

[snowcat]

I would love to know the reasoning that implies that a Cage thats produced with a MIG/MAG welder is somehow stronger than one produced an arc, or even how the welds produced by proficient hands and comparable consumables could have any difference in quality?

With the best will in the world visually inspecting a weld on completion really means zip, which is why any critical component would require inspection straight from the prep (unless the WPS has already been aproved)..

The whole subject seams to have some facts mixed with club rules and whims of those involved.

As I said one process is NOT better than another a TIG weld with the incorect prep, the wrong consumable choice will be just as bad as an Arc weld with inclusions, or a MIG weld with cold lap.

 

[PhillipM]

people do not seem to realise the forces transferred through a multi- point cage, this is one of the reasons your not allowed to braze any joints.

Better go argue that one with Ariel, who braze the Atom together for good reason.

 

[@Turbo]

The non allowance of Arc welding sounds to me that those in charge know little about welding, or even how to inspect it.

The process in any welding job is not important, and all processes present strengths and weakness, Its the knowledge of the welder and the correct use of consumables that will determine the job, and the same results should prevail no matter of what process or mix of process are used.

Arc has been used in just about every crucial industrial application there is, The lads who scrutineer these events must sleep uneasy in there beds thinking about all those atomic power stations thrown together with a stick.

agreed I am not a welder by trade but if I am doing digger bucket flanges or high stress components I always get my stick out. it just feels so much more responsive and I know 100% that you have a good weld.

had a fella show me his mig similar job I gave it a blast with a 4lb hammer. it looked like a good weld but the penetration was just not there. flopped off like a floppy floppy thing.

 

[dannyp]

i keep fining once welding and motorsport is metioned that loads of muppets start declareing things on a subject they know nothing about,

blue book says gas shielded arc so MIG or TIG most cages are miged in basicly because even the "CNC bent and prfiled one don't fit very well.

i like useing a mixtue of mig and tig to put a cage in, i like 1mm wire you get good penitration in on hit.

i have stick welded on cages in the paddock when cars have failed scrutineering on welds the cage fittign pikeys have missed. it amasing what you can get at with a bent stick

 

[Robotstar5]

blue book says gas shielded arc so MIG or TIG

The coating on MMA rods produce a shield gas though?

 

[gavuk]

Arc has been used in just about every crucial industrial application there is, The lads who scrutineer these events must sleep uneasy in there beds thinking about all those atomic power stations thrown together with a stick.

not to mention boats,bridges,pressure vessels ,much more likely that mig not be an allowable process than stick, at least outside of motorsport ,in industry it seems

 

[snowcat]

and if theres one process that really is useless in a poor fit up situation its a TIG? If its critical shouldnt prep be key anyhow.

Bonkers