Sandringham 6x6

[jsf55]

When i helped do a couple at Hotspur, the chassis was cut and approximately 2 foot of new steel was added into the centreish, hence making it 5 points less on the DVLA scale

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

When i helped do a couple at Hotspur, the chassis was cut and approximately 2 foot of new steel was added into the centreish, hence making it 5 points less on the DVLA scale

According to the full text of the guidance, there's a specific exemption for changes:

"of a type, that can be demonstrated to have been made when
vehicles of the type were in production or in general use (within ten years of
the end of production);"

Which would mean that as long as I directly copied the Sandringham or Hotspur modifications to Stage 1's it would not be classed as a "substantial change" for historical vehicle tax purposes as according to their own rules.

 

[8ob]

Another downside to a 6x6 conversion is the loss of towing concessions on a car license, they only legally apply to 4x4 vehicles weighing under 2040kg empty. They are no longer 4x4 and most will tip the scales at over 2040kg.

Bob

 

[Smallfry]

According to the full text of the guidance, there's a specific exemption for changes:

"of a type, that can be demonstrated to have been made when
vehicles of the type were in production or in general use (within ten years of
the end of production);"

Which would mean that as long as I directly copied the Sandringham or Hotspur modifications to Stage 1's it would not be classed as a "substantial change" for historical vehicle tax purposes as according to their own rules.

I dont think so, its a bit tenuous, because the mods would have had to have been done by a bona fide company, and I am pretty sure it has to have been done 30 plus years ago. It is all rather ambiguous though

 

[Smallfry]

To require an SVA or what ever its called now, is down to a points scoring system, and consideration if it is a major structural modification.
So from memory you need 8 points to avoid sva.
Original chassis frame 5 points
Original engine 1 point
Original gear box 1 point
Original steering 1 point.
Welding brackets to a chassis isnt a major mod, neither is in the case of a landy replacing cross members etc.

So I can see the confusion for a minimum wage minion at the DVLA who thinks cars only have 4 wheels.

This modification does involve lengthening the main chassis rails though, so you would lose those 5 points.

 

[sako243]

Another downside to a 6x6 conversion is the loss of towing concessions on a car license, they only legally apply to 4x4 vehicles weighing under 2040kg empty. They are no longer 4x4 and most will tip the scales at over 2040kg.

Bob

I was genuinely surprised but I took a load of scrap and before leaving we weighed just the Sandringham.

20ft Ifor still hitched up but reversed off the weighbridge. Me at 100kg, two labs at 30kg each and a load of stuff in the cab weighed in at exactly 2200kg. So even without the extra stuff it would 2040kg with the heavy Nissan diesel lump in there.

 

[8ob]

I was genuinely surprised but I took a load of scrap and before leaving we weighed just the Sandringham.

20ft Ifor still hitched up but reversed off the weighbridge. Me at 100kg, two labs at 30kg each and a load of stuff in the cab weighed in at exactly 2200kg. So even without the extra stuff it would 2040kg with the heavy Nissan diesel lump in there.

Thats good going Ed,yours is a sort of series hybrid, that said its no longer a 4x4 The real basic 110's are just a tad under two tons, no chance of one of those being converted and still under the concessionary weight.

	Defender 110 Hard Top
Gross Payload (Kg)	1131
Gross Vehicle Weight (Kg)	3050
Kerb Weight (Kg)	1919
Towing Limit (Kg)	3500

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I dont think so, its a bit tenuous,

One can make an equally valid interpretation of the DVLA's regulations either way, because theit wording is so terribly vague.

Either:
- the modifications must be of the same type as modifications commonly made to that model of vehicle during or ten years after the manufacturing run,
Or
- the modifications must have been demonstrably done within ten years of the type of vehicle ceasing manufacture.

It is more than a bit tenuous to rely on that sort of wordplay however.

because the mods would have had to have been done by a bona fide company, and I am pretty sure it has to have been done 30 plus years ago. It is all rather ambiguous though

That's not what it says in the DVLA's own documentation on exemptions though, there's no qualifiers to their statement.

I suspect it would fall into one of the many "you are entitled to make that interpretation but it will need to go before a judge to decide who's right..." grey areas of British bureaucracy (which are familiar enough from dealing with Environmental and Safety Regulation), where really if you don't literally have to, it's best not to go there.



If I had a lot of time on my hands, I might be tempted to try to push this sort of approach just to do battle with some bureaucrats for the "joy" of using their own badly written policies against them.

But, I don't have a lot of time, and I think I am in a small minority in enjoying doing battle with bureaucrats over technicalities... Also, I quite like the Stage 1 as it is.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Another downside to a 6x6 conversion is the loss of towing concessions on a car license, they only legally apply to 4x4 vehicles weighing under 2040kg empty. They are no longer 4x4 and most will tip the scales at over 2040kg.

Bob

What are these concessions?

As someone with a post 2013 B+E licence, all the guidance states I can tow trailers of up to 3500kg MAM, behind any Class B vehicle, as long as I don't exceed the GTW of the towing vehicle.

 

[bricol]

I dont think so, its a bit tenuous, because the mods would have had to have been done by a bona fide company, and I am pretty sure it has to have been done 30 plus years ago. It is all rather ambiguous though

Exactly. From other forums etc, that wording is more for fitting updated axles, engines, panels etc to an existing vehicle - so if you had a Sandringham, you could swap axles to a newer version etc.

But if you had a Land Rover and added an extra axle, its now a Land Rover with an extra axle - it's not and can't ever be a Sandringham. Unless, I assume, they did it but if it's a private vehicle and not a fire service vehicle, I suspect it would still need an IVA test.

While waiting for various vehicles of mine to be tested, I've seen new vehicles from low volume makers being put through. And fail!

Strangest though was an LDV van - talking to the owner, he'd bought it as ex-UK military and was struggling to get it privately registered - it needed Ministers Approval Certificate from passing an IVA test - which two attempts later, it hadn't.

 

[dieselsamurai]

Another downside to a 6x6 conversion is the loss of towing concessions on a car license, they only legally apply to 4x4 vehicles weighing under 2040kg empty. They are no longer 4x4 and most will tip the scales at over 2040kg.

Bob

Ops my Chevy squarebody is just over 3000kg with hiab on it empty , was never stopped though even with a digger and dumper on the ifor williams . I guess most plod dont know the rules , this thread got me thinking of making it a 6x4 or 6x6 too !

 

[dieselsamurai]

Exactly. From other forums etc, that wording is more for fitting updated axles, engines, panels etc to an existing vehicle - so if you had a Sandringham, you could swap axles to a newer version etc.

But if you had a Land Rover and added an extra axle, its now a Land Rover with an extra axle - it's not and can't ever be a Sandringham. Unless, I assume, they did it but if it's a private vehicle and not a fire service vehicle, I suspect it would still need an IVA test.

While waiting for various vehicles of mine to be tested, I've seen new vehicles from low volume makers being put through. And fail!

Strangest though was an LDV van - talking to the owner, he'd bought it as ex-UK military and was struggling to get it privately registered - it needed Ministers Approval Certificate from passing an IVA test - which two attempts later, it hadn't.

When me and my old man had a lorry and were scrapping cars we once went to some rich nutters house and he had a workshop full of 6 wheel cars 2 Serrias and a cortina all with the extra wheel right in the middle of a lengthened body ! he bought 4 brand new shells from ford and chopped them up !! Claimed they would handle better than a normal car proper nutter , funnily enough could get through IVA but the inspector ruled them dangerous . We scrapped the lot shame but didnt have camera phone back then wish i had a picture