Sankey trailer brakes

[addjunkie]

A fair few trailers still have this setup. Neighbours brand new 2021 Ifor has this, except they neglected to fit the catch so I came to their rescue with a piece of steel to shove in the hole instead.

I have the a Nugent version pain in the RSE.

 

[James1979]

Mini artics - I have a thing about these. "I want one"..

Ditto. You go to Europe they are really popular. Iveco daily is a common tractor. Not seen one here. All the usual suspects use them over there like groundworks people etc but I’ve seen them used with market stall trailers too. Very handy.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

I have got an air over hydraulic set up off a landrover mini artic, that uses an air over hydraulic load compensator attached to the back axle to regulate trailer brake pressure.

Mate has the same setup ready to go on his 110, so I’ll be plaguing you for help with that!

 

[Munkul]

When you can buy an Ifor williams 3.5t and refurb the overrun brakes all in for under £1200 I don't see why anyone would mess about with a complicated homebrew hydraulic braked trailer.

You could make overrun brakes work on hydraulic calipers, but you'd have to work out the length of the lever between the hitch and the master cylinder so it always had enough braking force... and in the event of a failure, it's likely to break something with the weight of the trailer going through the linkage.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

When you can buy an Ifor williams 3.5t and refurb the overrun brakes all in for under £1200 I don't see why anyone would mess about with a complicated homebrew hydraulic braked trailer.

You could make overrun brakes work on hydraulic calipers, but you'd have to work out the length of the lever between the hitch and the master cylinder so it always had enough braking force... and in the event of a failure, it's likely to break something with the weight of the trailer going through the linkage.

I don’t need 3.5t, i need a trailer I can pull on sensible off road stuff that I can sleep in

 

[Munkul]

I don’t need 3.5t, i need a trailer I can pull on sensible off road stuff that I can sleep in

My point was that good overrun brakes aren't all that expensive. i refurbed my 2 axle 3.5t brakes for £200 and i replaced quite a few bits and cables etc.

 

[Moose McAlpine]

I’ve acquired a narrow track sankey chassis to convert into a camping pod, the issue being is that the original drum brakes have been removed.

Why not find someone breaking one/with spares and just refit the drums?

Got to be the easiest solution by far.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Why not find someone breaking one/with spares and just refit the drums?

Got to be the easiest solution by far.

Narrow track bits are like hens teeth, wide track not much easier. The drawbar for the rod operated drums has been butchered on this trailer and locked up when the brakes were removed, but a friend has given me a complete hydraulic actuating drawbar for a disk braked trailer. It makes sense to utilise that and build a disk setup rather than trying to find a combination of drum components that fit

 

[Tinbasherdan]

My point was that good overrun brakes aren't all that expensive. i refurbed my 2 axle 3.5t brakes for £200 and i replaced quite a few bits and cables etc.

The components are just not available off the shelf as a complete package. I could well spend the next two years just collecting bits that fit, as they aren’t generic trailer components

 

[Robotstar5]

Mini artics - I have a thing about these. "I want one"..

Here you go....

 

[Munkul]

a friend has given me a complete hydraulic actuating drawbar for a disk braked trailer. It makes sense to utilise that and build a disk setup rather than trying to find a combination of drum components that fit

Ah, in that case it makes sense, sorry I missed that does the drawbar have a built in handbrake mech using hydraulic lines, or is the handbrake seperate?
There are still a few cars which use hydraulic disc calipers at the back, but a built in cable mechanism for the handbrake. Nissan did loads.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Ah, in that case it makes sense, sorry I missed that does the drawbar have a built in handbrake mech using hydraulic lines, or is the handbrake seperate?
There are still a few cars which use hydraulic disc calipers at the back, but a built in cable mechanism for the handbrake. Nissan did loads.

It’s a cable handbrake , so easy enough to use car calipers I would imagine

 

[Parm]

What about this as an option ?

 

[Justme]

Why?! Can you back that up please?

Servo assistance is there to assist the driver, it acts as a force multiplier so the driver can put less effort in to achieve the same braking effort at the wheel. If you lose the (typically) vacuum then you can still stop with the same force but you have to physically put all that force in at the pedal, you don't get any help from the engine. But fundamentally the hydraulics in the braking system will achieve the same braking effort with or without servo assistance.

It's exactly the same with power assisted steering, it's there to assist you but you can still turn you just have to put in a lot more effort.

Incidentally servo assistance is generally not required with drum brakes because as the brakes are applied the simple geometry of the brake drum means that it locks up on it's own requiring almost no effort to maintain the braking effort. Unlike a disc setup which requires constant force to be input to maintain the braking effort.

Main reason brakes have changed from drums to discs is lower maintenance overhead (do not need adjusting), the "race" factor (i.e. race cars had them because they needed the extra cooling) and therefore race stuff is cool therefore it transitioned across to road cars too.

Look at car A frames. you cant have a non servo assisted one as the over run does not create enough "pedal" force.

To build a trailer you either have to prove the effective braking force or have the docs from the maker to prove it.

 

[Justme]

Car hand brakes do not meet the required braking force for trailers.

To be honest if it actually weighs out at 750 I’ll show my hoop in woolies window. I don’t *need* brakes but if it’s fitted for them why not have them. As I said, there’s a vicious rumour that the calipers on the disk brakes sankeys are Granada- might be wrong but they’re definitely nothing fancy in any case

If fitted in any way they must work.

 

[Justme]

A fair few trailers still have this setup. Neighbours brand new 2021 Ifor has this, except they neglected to fit the catch so I came to their rescue with a piece of steel to shove in the hole instead.

Sorry got to call BS on this.

There is no way a 2021 trailer does not have autoreverse brakes seeing as its been a legal requirement for years.

 

[Justme]

Rod operated is a good enough description.

Basic hydraulic actuator systems like brakes, ie one input and a simple pipe to an output or three, is effectively a “flexible rod”. There isn’t a hydraulic circuit as such.

The advantage of hydraulic braking is that you can easily multiply the force so you get out more than you put in. Can be done by changing the bore (think finger over a hosepipe) or mechanical assist, like a servo.

A secondary advantage is the “flexible rod” - you can route it wherever you need, not restricted to straight line actuation like the old back brakes on motorbikes

But down side there is no hand brake.

 

[Justme]

Air brakes are the way! Much better than anything else. The landrovers had a conversion for normal brakes on the truck and an air suzie to the trailer. Not sure how it worked mind.

Those electric ones like you get on the fifth wheel caravans used to be illegal here but I think there’s now a way round it with a mod?

There are some legal electric brake systems in the UK.

The main issues were applying the hand brake & the brakes working in a detachment.

American caravans and trailers: brakes and couplings

www.gov.uk

 

[Justme]

Narrow track bits are like hens teeth, wide track not much easier. The drawbar for the rod operated drums has been butchered on this trailer and locked up when the brakes were removed, but a friend has given me a complete hydraulic actuating drawbar for a disk braked trailer. It makes sense to utilise that and build a disk setup rather than trying to find a combination of drum components that fit

Apart from this would be a major design change taking it (possibly) into the need to have an IVA.

 

[carbon]

I have got an air over hydraulic set up off a landrover mini artic, that uses an air over hydraulic load compensator attached to the back axle to regulate trailer brake pressure.

I have the same on my fl611 with discs and had the same on a cargo artic