Sherman Tig (Jasic in disguise?)

[Ruffian]

I know it's a minor point but,

The jasic has a quick release fitting on the front for the gas connection to the torch, not a threaded piece.

Yes I know it is a very minor piece but makes me think what else could be different.

 

[Stuart EDS]

Couldn't find any other Jasic ones in Sherman's range. Perhaps more are on their way?

 

[chrisg3103]

The analog and digital jasics are rebadged as magnum I think? Big yellow boxes. Pemat in poland where I got the sherman from sell them, although not as much of a saving as sherman? https://weldes.de/gb/14-tig-acdc-gtaw-welders

I would love to compare pictures of the inside with a genuine jasic if anyone wants to pop the covers off of one?

 

[chrisg3103]

Your right there will be quite a lot different.


I think you will find there will be quite a bit of difference in component quality . They told me they repair these things to component level and not board level unless mega busy. Best thing let's ask him to take the lid of it and I will do the same to mine and we can compare. If its the same then why pay over double the price.

It's a deal, providing I dont get called out tonight I'll lift the lid and post some pictures of the boards
Be interesting to see the difference

 

[chrisg3103]

I couldn't resist:

Cover off, thick plastic insulators stuck to the boards with silicone

Top view

XuGang seems to be the board assembler? a few stickers, also part numbers and QR code stickers

one side

Other side

Board number and manufacturer

Back off and cooling fan, quite a nice design where the air is drawn through long heatsinks though the middle of the machine. Components are mounted around the outside of this cooling tunnel so you are not dragging dust over the components and filling the machine with muck. Fan on emand helps too

This must be where the savings are, they only went for good quality

Some big capacitors and copper busbars inside of air flow

MOSFETS on outside of air flow, thats right, MOSFET, not IGBT...

 

[chrisg3103]

Bottom plate removed

25U20 are apparently MOSFETs

big chips and little chips

Spark gap near the front panel

Final picture the inside of the lid, noticed a little earthing point.

So in summary i would say the main reason the sherman is cheaper is its based on different cheaper technology, Jasic advertise IGBT. Plus the components are probably at the cheaper end of the spectrum, but what would be interesting to see is if the design is the same, use the same board layouts and im pretty sure they use the same software. Seems a well put together machine the cover was surprisingly heavy, actually went and measured it and the steel is 1.25mm thick.

Didnt fancy going any deeper then i did as i didnt fancy tangling with any big capacitors or potentially bricking a working machine

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Could be very amusing if it's basically the same on the inside...I suspect you are right. The Sherman is built to a price which is lower.

Still tempted...I saw Sherman also do another acdc Tig which is £100 cheaper too.

 

[Munkul]

surprised to see a modern inverter using a spark gap system for HF.

Good pics, thanks

 

[Stuart EDS]

Corners cut on components no doubt, but its screwed and glued together well. Impressive

According to the circuit drawing its using Mosfets (MDP15N075) in the Primary inverter and IGBTs in the secondary the SFR25U20's are the rectifier diodes.
I've just been looking at the Sherman arc welders on weldes.de and the user manuals are in good English and have a circuit drawing!

Looking forward to seeing a Jasic's naughty bits.

 

[Ruffian]

surprised to see a modern inverter using a spark gap system for HF.

Good pics, thanks

the parweld xtt202 does still for sure also.

 

[MetalMonkey]

I'd not beat yourself up over it, doesn’t detract from the machine and this is pretty typical in a lot of cases the same products are rebranded at different pricepoints in different regions and a lot has to do with the distribution network.

The advantage of the Jasic would be the warranty and service aspect if you are a business that is relying on these and need to have some sort of backup in place.

There is also always a risk when buying and importing something from another country.
For a home gamer it becomes harder to justify the extra when you might not put enough hours on it before the warranty expires to really get the benefit from it.

Thanks to both of you for checking and clarifying it though – bit too late for me now but might help others out.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I think I just decided which Tig I'm buying...cheers for the pictures guys.

Seems crazy to me!

Question now is weather a Jassic is more reliable than 2 Sherman machines!

 

[chrisg3103]

Did you manage to see what the part numbers were on the diodes? They should be different, as I said pretty sure the sherman uses the older mosfet type and jasic advertised the mini as being igbt?
Do look remarkably similar though, thanks for lifting the lid

 

[Munkul]

Just because they have the same design and probably assembled in the same place, doesn't mean they have the same quality assurance (and therefore reliability).

I know if it was my factory, I'd want the "A" team and QA on my top branded grade 1 machines that I was selling, and makes total sense to use the "B" team, or the trainees, or suspect/repaired components on the grade 2 products.

Does £550 buy you the 5 year warranty? Why can you only buy them on Ebay? Where's the spares and backup coming from?

Fair enough for the hobbyist who can afford downtime on a broken machine, but for a professional, that £800 price difference could pay for 2 days of welding time. Not that it's ever that straightforward, but you get the idea.

 

[chrisg3103]

Also, just trying to compare pictures on my phone. The main boards are from different suppliers I think? The jasic is a year older though, maybe changed a little. Can have a proper comparison when I get to my computer.
But as mentioned, even if they are the same the extra is a £150 a year service contract and peace of mind

 

[chrisg3103]

According to the circuit drawing its using Mosfets (MDP15N075) in the Primary inverter and IGBTs in the secondary the SFR25U20's are the rectifier diodes.

Just seen this, maybe I missed the secondary inverter?

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Does £550 buy you the 5 year warranty? Why can you only buy them on Ebay? Where's the spares and backup coming from?

Well I just bought mine from their ShermanEurope web site so we'll see if it arrives....was £550 including the pedal and the bits and bobs. I've been looking at the Sherman for about 6 months and seeing how well put together they are I decided to go for it....before all the stock disappears....and then reappears at £750 a pop!...thanks for the pictures

Yep I doubt the warranty is worth much...but at £550 if it lasts a year or 2 I can always buy another machine with the money saved.

This isn't for everyone I think....in a work environment where down time costs more money than the welder I'd stick to the Jassic all day long.

 

[Stuart EDS]

Wou

As you can see lol I eat humble pie as its the same as the Fecking Sherman. I didn't need to strip down anymore due to possible water damage from my tears cause I really could have saved a fortune. They are a cracking set and if you buy the sherman version at 550 quid I mean WTF for the money. Unless there is some hidden gem like software difference which maybe only show up once welding then who knows . Note this also has the Spark gaps as I see them in the same place. 550 to 1300 is a tad ridiculous to be honest regardless of warranty unless we have a Jasic engineer on the forum that can explain what's going on and why??

Thanks for the Pics, Did you get any close ups of the devices?

EDIT: Didn't realise the Jasic was £1300! Thats a bit beyond what a few components will save.
I guess they could know over the 6 years you'll probably be wanting a new machine off them.

 

[Hood]

Anyone know if the welder (Sherman or Jasic) has the feature of tap trigger to drop to lower current when using 4T mode?

 

[Stuart EDS]

Just seen this, maybe I missed the secondary inverter?

Will be on the big heat sink somewhere.

1 year warranty business use, 2 year home use looks like.
Wonder if you can pay Jasic UK to repair it

Anyway useful thread.
I have a 200A Pulse ARC / Lift TIG with 10kg of ESAB rods on the way for less that a XTS163