siegen 180 so817 wiring

[stovenut]

Hi all, new to the forum so go easy on me.I have a SIEGEN 180 AMP MIG stock code SO817 which I have
ordered a new pcb from Sealey.Unfortunately I removed the two wires from the rotary switch which feed
up to the pcb main relay.If anyone could possibly photograph or post a diagram as to where these two wires go to I would be very grateful.


All I know about electricity is that it costs and it hurts

 

[mike 109444]

Not quite sure of the wires you are on about BUT think you have now fitted new pcb and have a pair of spade connectors that you are not sure where they go on the pcb?
I think it is the ones on this diagram shown in thick brown and red.? (not correct colours but done to illistrate
If not post a pic of pcb and wires + where they come from.

 

[mike 109444]

Forgot to say welcome BTW

 

[stovenut]

OOPS!!!!!! HOLD EVERYTHING! thanks Mike Suffered a lapse in concentration. The Red wire in your diagram(black on welder ) is correct. The location of the other wire goes to either the connection for fan /24 volt transformer or fan/thermal
overload switch connections on the main rotary switch.I just dont understand the different symbols for S1 or J7


All I know about electricity is that it costs and it hurts

 

[mike 109444]

Trying to figure if you have sussed it ?
The S1 symbol is a (thermal cutout) switch that is normally closed (follow the green line!) . IF the switch (as in the device it's attached to, main transformer ?) gets to hot then the switch will open and cut power to the pcb to stop you frying the machines main transformer, BUT power is STILL fed to the cooling fan so it can cool the transformer and the machine enough to close switch.
So in normal use the power runs along the green line, but when it get to hot, switch opens and now the power goes along the yellow bit and lights the over temp light.
J7 is a "jack" point as in Plug and Jack.This is just the manufactures way of identifying a plug from a socket. Sometime they use the abbreviations SK PL or CONN.

 

[stovenut]

Cheers Mike and thank you for your help.As I am waiting for the replacement to arrive at my local Sealey agent I was afraid of making a wrong connection and nuking the
pcb. The reason I ordered a new pcb was the main relay housing was damaged and I could not identify numbers to chase up a replacement.When I shook the pcb there was
a rattle from the other relay (wire speed control?) but doesnt seem burnt or swollen.The rest of the pcb looks good.I do have a small analogue multimeter and a digital
multimeter mostly used for checking continuity and wiring on cars.If replacement pcb revives the welder(which I really hope it does!) then I could possibly restore old pcb
by replacing these two relays.Again, thank you for all your help and will keep you informed of how I get on when the pcb arrives.

All I know about electricity is that it costs and it hurts

 

[mike 109444]

Pity you did not come on here first as there should be plenty of Siegen/Sealey owners on here that could have given the details of the relays!
Relays would have cost <£20 for the two (sorry if I am rubbing salt into the wound).
Do you have pic of the orignal pcb as they did use different ones over the years.

 

[stovenut]

Hi Mike, more like cellulose thinners being rubbed into the wound lol.Had to get my son to upload photos of pcb as I am useless with computers(wrong side of 50)
There are no electronic shops that I know of here in Northern Ireland (could be wrong!).If you could put me on track of suppliers of said relays I would be very grateful

Blown relay

When shaken this relay rattles.

 

[mike 109444]

If you look on the relay there is a code (combination of letters and numbers) can't quite see on your pic. But if you use that make of relay and the code (it will be something like "G5LE-24" in a search of ebay then you should get results (less than just the OMRON I put in !) http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_f...Xomron+realay.TRS0&_nkw=omron+realay&_sacat=0
The results should tie up with your black relay which I think says 10Amp at 240 and DC24v This means it is a relay that needs 24vDC to operate it and it can switch up to 10Amps at 240vAC . The reason you must get the correct one is that what it switches INSIDE it is also important it maybe DPDT for example which means it's a Double Pole Double Throw (and maybe center off) Don't worry to much about all of this just get correct one. If you can't find it then post better pic of relay and will suss out an equivalent on ebay.
Ref the other relay hopefully someone will come back with a pic of there relay so that can be ID'ed.

 

[mike 109444]

Found pic of the relay cover ut not good enough to get details from apart from its rating which looks to be quite meaty as it can switch 30Amps at 240vAC (using a 24vDC supply).
Again someone may post better pic or info. Also is pic of pcb connections.

 

[mike 109444]

If you get board watching paint dry then this is the spec sheet for the bigger relay. With yours highlighted.
Now't showing on ebay for it but does show up in Asia if googed

 

[stovenut]

Well Mike, I fitted new pcb and nothing is going (no light, no fan, no wire feed).Dont know where to go from here.Suggestions? No clicking from relays.Is it possibly the rotary switch?

 

[stovenut]

Mike, I have checked with a multimeter the wires marked red/com and brown/no where they enter the pcb and got no voltage( meter set for 240volt ac).I have then
proceeded testing for live wires around the rotary switch with a phase tester.Where live wire enters switch it is very bright but on all other terminals it is not so bright.
I would like to test these contacts from live feed into switch with a multimeter and with welder turned on to check for voltage (I am assuming there should be 240 volt readings) but I am afraid of shorting something out such as live/live or worse still getting lamped myself (by the way what would happen if I did cross live/live with a multimeter ?)
(relates to first wiring diagram)Right plucked up courage and went in with mutimeter
I placed red wire of meter to live supplying switch and probed all other switch connections
with black.I got 230 volt readings on all but one connection .I tested this with a phase tester
and it glowed brightly indicating live.This switch connection has no wires on it.Is it possible that the brown wire in diagram 1 which feeds the pcb and also connected to fan /thermal overload switch /and overload bulb should be connected on this terminal ? As I see it am I trying to feed the pcb with two neutrals?

 

[mike 109444]

Not sure what a Phase tester is (checks L and N ??) Any hoo. Even without the pcb connected the fan should work! I have coloured the schematic to make it a bit clearer. Check 1st why the fan is not running as you can see from the diagram it gets 240 straight from the ON/OFF switch. I have used brown and blue to try and indicate live and neutral BUT as some of the circuit is running through devices and switches this will not always apply.
Suspect the ON/OFF switch might not be working fully.

 

[stovenut]

Mike as I said with new pcb fitted nothing happening.If I remove fan wires from switch and test fan with 240v test lead and it goes would that mean the switch is faulty?Have tested fan with test lead and it is okay. Do you think rotary switch is faulty?

 

[mike 109444]

Note this is not the correct schematic for your machine but seams close enought

 

[mike 109444]

Was this a working machine BEFORE the pcb failed or was it bought as a "not working" machine" ?
In response to your post 15 if fan runs off independent supply it just means the fan is ok! If it is then set meter to AC volts and meter where the fan connects and turn on machine to see if you get 240 there.
You might need to post a few pics of inside machine so as to get an ideal what is connecting to what.

 

[stovenut]

Got welder off neighbors son awhile back before he headed off to America.Machine wasnt working as I suspected pcb problem. Put meter across two fan contacts and nothing

 

[stovenut]

These wires are pcb supply /overheat bulb /fan /overheat switch.(yellow and black is pencil)

These two wires are fan / 24 volt transformer

 

[mike 109444]

As the MAIN ON/OFF switch will (SHOULD BE) a double pole switch, namely it switches BOTH the live AND neutral it could be that ONE of the two switch contacts is burnt out hence why you were getting some readings especially off the phase tester (maybe). You could after noting what is connected to what, disconnect the 4 wires from the ON/OFF switch (2 in 2 out) and meter across the switch to see if it is working. If you think it is duff With CARE it should be possible to bypass the switch FOR TESTING PURPOSES ONLY.