Swapping to electrode negative

[LOXLEY FORGE]

My First Post .
I picked this welder up at carboot £22 in the summer .
Tried it when i got home worked ok ,so I gave my Clarke 150 to a friend.
I have used the 165 a few times .
Always struggled to strike an ark and battles to keep the slag out of welds,
rods were 3/32" standard E6013 that I bought of ebay .
I started a project over Christmas it was then I realised that eather the 165 or the rods were not working as should be.
Very poor ark and sticking rods.
I am not a time seved welder but had llenty of welding experience.
After reading about Electrode Negative might work better for 6013 rods I swapped the leads over this morning.
What a difference in the strike and lay down of the rod.
Even managed to keep the flux from running back while welding 2 different thicknesses together.
There isn't any plus or minus markings on the welder only pictures of rod holder and earth clamp .
I presume it would be electrode positive.
I tried 3.5 7018 cranked up the welder to maximum .
It didn't like them, eventually tripping over load protection.
Thought I would share my tale of wow.
I the hope it will give an insight of changing to electrode negative.
Some of the 6013's were rusted under the flux which I discarded.
I am on the look out for 6013 ruttlie rods.
Which I used to get from the welders at work.

 

[charliecambs]

Hi, not an expert on Clarke but this looks like a heavy transformer type machine. It has no rectifier so output is AC 50 hertz . The control knob moves an internal core on the transformer to vary the current available
I've had a SIP weldmate for maybe 40 years! Never really made decent welds then changed to MIG for the car repairs and most other stuff.

Santa brought me a low cost inverter welder last Christmas and I have laid better welds more easily with it than I ever managed with the old SIP transformer it has hot start and anti-stick and only weighs a few Kg .
There's some information on the forum I think they are (were?) in the £45 range via the usual sites....

 

[hotponyshoes]

I'd think that was an ac welder so shouldn't make any difference?
I'd check all the lead /plug connections as maybe something was loose and moving them around has sorted it (probably temporarily!)

I've got quite a few new packs of 6013 rutile if you are anywhere near Frome?

 

[zzr1200]

That's a AC Buzz box, the only reason it would weld better after swapping the leads over is, you either had a dirty or loose connection to one or both of the leads. I'd be inclined to take the covers off and check the other wiring connections in side your buzz box. Also being as it appears it can use on 400v I would check the on/off selection switch for clean contacts and electrical work conduity (spelling????).

 

[aesmith]

All the branded E6013s that I have specify AC or electrode negative, but I actually get on much better with EP. That's using a DC inverter. Not working to a procedure or anything, just mending or modifying broken stuff.

 

[Agroshield]

All the branded E6013s that I have specify AC or electrode negative

Please could you check that. To the best of my knowledge, the '3' at the end of the electrode number does not indicate DC-.

See:

AWS Classifications

The American Welding Society (AWS) numbering system can tell a welder quite a bit about a specific stick electrode including what application it works best in and how it should be used to maximize performance.

www.lincolnelectric.com

 

[LOXLEY FORGE]

Thanks for replies iwill hace a better look tommorow at the info plate on machine.
AC ONLY BUT SO IS THE E6013's
Still running stinger to negative post .
NO DC so not electrode negative as such but somethings different much smoother weld .

 

[LOXLEY FORGE]

Have noticed the amp control knob takes almost a full revaluation before it takes up the slack between +/--.
Welder was under a bench in the shadows so when I was trying to tune the amps to perfection I didn't Doh!
I also have one of these inverters Off carboot for cheap only been used a couple of times so like new but a 200 amp version .
Works well so I got a used scratch start Tig kit for it and a few disposable Argon tanks, new tungstons and a few filler rods .
I paid more for the Argon than the full welder and kit.
So teaching myself Tig via
u tube so that will keep me occupied for a while.

 

[Barking Mat]

As above, it's a

Have noticed the amp control knob takes almost a full REVOLUTION before it takes up the slack between +/--.
Welder was under a bench in the shadows so when I was trying to tune the amps to perfection I didn't Doh!
I also have one of these inverters Off carboot for cheap only been used a couple of times so like new but a 200 amp version .
Works well so I got a used scratch start Tig kit for it and a few disposable Argon tanks, new tungstons and a few filler rods .
I paid more for the Argon than the full welder and kit.
So teaching myself Tig via
u tube so that will keep me occupied for a while.
View attachment 478547

That will be a DC machine, so you could try electrode negative.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Please could you check that. To the best of my knowledge, the '3' at the end of the electrode number does not indicate DC-.

You are correct, 6013 is AC or DC+, 6012 is AC and DC=

At least, that is what they are designed for.

Jack

 

[aesmith]

Please could you check that. To the best of my knowledge, the '3' at the end of the electrode number does not indicate DC-.]

Bohler "Q" and "Phoenix Blau" ...

Oerlikon ..

Magmaweld ESR11

 

[Robert Weaver]

I've repaired a couple like this, the transformer secondary winding is aluminium and crimps to the copper leads coming out to the torch and work return. The aluminium corroded inside the crimp and the copper is eaten away. As suggested earlier, take the cover off and check the cabling for corrosion.

 

[LOXLEY FORGE]

I did a google search regarding swapping stinger lead to negative on a AC Welder .
Here is the interesting reply

 

[LOXLEY FORGE]

I've repaired a couple like this, the transformer secondary winding is aluminium and crimps to the copper leads coming out to the torch and work return. The aluminium corroded inside the crimp and the copper is eaten away. As suggested earlier, take the cover off and check the cabling for corrosion.

Will do I've cleared the bench off in readiness.

 

[LOXLEY FORGE]

This is the compleated sawhorse I have built over Christmas.
The centre section is slidable on the bar.
It will be used to cut logs along the trunk as well as cross cutting blanks ready for drying for wood turning.
Much safer than balanced on a pallet and not so far to bend down

 

[Bsmith]

I did a google search regarding swapping stinger lead to negative on a AC Welder .
Here is the interesting reply
View attachment 478795

No, output from an ac welder is the same on both terminals.

 

[Mark 2]

I'm still not understanding how a/c would have ( in its own definition) a positive and negative.

 

[voipio]

The AI response is somewhat confusing. Whichever way round the ground and electrode cables are connected on an AC welder, should give the same result. Try swapping the connections over several times and running a bead each time, to see if the phenomenon is repeatable. Try measuring the voltage between the ground and electrode terminals, using a voltmeter set to AC volts and then DC volts, and seeing what the readings are. For a pure AC output, the DC reading should be close to zero. If the DC reading is quite large, it may be that someone has fitted a rectifier inside the welder.

 

[eddie49]

I did a google search regarding swapping stinger lead to negative on a AC Welder .
Here is the interesting reply
View attachment 478795

I'm sorry, but this reply is just nonsense. Perhaps it was composed by an AI "bot". By definition, AC is simply AC, there is no polarity. And most machines do not have a "switch" to change polarity, the leads are swapped over. The switch would have to be rated at 200 Amps......!

 

[LOXLEY FORGE]

I'm still not understanding how a/c would have ( in its own definition) a positive and negative.

I am taking the can opener to the welder tomorrow hopefully I will be able to shed a bit more light on the subject.
Maybe with the leads reversed the AC switching 60+ times a second between +/-- is somehow finding a smoother path. Just a guess