The British motor/motorcycle industry - discuss

[minimutly]

I've had a couple of BL cars (and am still using a Marina), nothing exiting but they do what they need to do, they were often rough and agricultural when compared to the foreign cars of their time.

My previous car was a 1275 Hunter with overdrive, on paper it's similar to the Marina but it was a whole lot nicer to drive, more refined, more power, more relaxed due to OD, and many parts (suspension, wheels, brakes) are interchangeable with Ford making it easy to find used part for cheap motoring.

K-series is a great engine but needs some sympathy which is often missing from motoring public. It's also easy to go wrong when rebuilding which is why many garage won't do engine work. I had a 214 Sei, when I got it the thing was dog slow, a 300 mile motorway run blew the cobwebs out then it was fun and nippy but a bit low on power, sweet but nothing special.

A lass was living with me last year, she had picked up a Rover k-series 214/216 for daily transport. I got a panic call to say a water hose had blown off. I went out, refitted it and told her to get it to a workshop asap to get it checked properly. She didn't I got another call 3 months later to say it had popped again, this time it blew the headgaskjet. We took it to the local workshop - they had fittted a replacement motor for the previous owner so he could sell the car - they had so many problems with it when he owned it, they refused to even look at it. The car got scrapped because of the headgasket. For comparison I bought an old VW golf with a blown headgasket, I did the work in an afternoon on the driveway and didn't even need to check the head for damage as I knew it would be ok.

A lot of British industry in the 60s/70s (cars and bikes) could be easily recognised as a modern version of the pre-war machines. The overseas industry had been wrecked by WW2 so their factories and cars designs were built "new" by the 1960s - which is why Japanese & German cars were years ahead of the UK in development.

A magazine article I saw reported that machines from a motorcycle factory had been bought up and the new owners were wrecking crankcases when they tried to use the machines to drill them.
After speaking to operators at the old site, they found the vertical drill needed an old floorboard held against the motor when in use to stop the drill shaft vibrating - the machines were so worn out they were otherwise unusable !

Yes I think the old A and B series production line were years out of date. The K though was all new, to tight tollerances. I had a sideline in buying rover 200s, head off, skim and rebuild (as long as the engine hadn't overheated to soft). Mostly I found the radiator was knackered - nothing to do with the engine. Also I repaired dozens of gearboxes - a Peugeot box adapted to the K, first motion shaft bearing, easy fix, I used to have them on rotation. The 8V K was snails pace, if you had the 16V k series it was anything but slow.
I rebuilt an 8 valve that had broken its cambelt, get towed home in gear. The conrod was in hundreds of bits. Second hand head, rod and liner, clean and rebuild, went for years.
I had a 1.6 K mini in here once, on Dellortos. bits everywhere. It turned out the Delortos had sucked in the clasp from the makeshift air filter - that got a used piston and rod, don't remember if the head survived. It took me 3 24mile test drives to clear the oil, antifreeze, water from the exhaust, but boy did it shift - it was eating gears as fast as I could change them - a right hooligan machine...

 

[Islander71]

In the late 1960s I had a Royal Enfield Constellation - a 700cc parallel twin. It was unusual in that although dry sump, it had the oil tank built into the crankcase castings which greatly damped the notorious British parallel twin vibrations. When made it was the most powerful British production bike at 50bhp, and was a delightful long distance and all round bike. Took it from the south coast to Germany and to Amsterdam, and up here to Scotland. Had plenty of foibles, like a front brake that barely worked in the rain and a scissor action clutch that would sometimes come apart while riding, but I have very fond memories of it.
One of the beauties of the British bikes was that they were so easy to work on, you could strip the bike down, cylinder head off, barrels off, at the side of the road in an hour or so. Somewhat different to a modern Japanese machine!
After being without a bike for a number of years with young children, I got back in with an Indian built RE Bullet 500, the Electra X. The engine was a lean-burn designed by a Swiss team, and despite living where there are hardly any straight or flat roads, it consistently did 100mpg. Biking friends said it would be always breaking down, but it was very reliable, just a bit slow, but a sweet thing to ride if you weren't in a hurry. The new REs do have a good reputation for simple, affordable, sound engineering.

 

[Bobupndown]

In the late 1960s I had a Royal Enfield Constellation - a 700cc parallel twin. It was unusual in that although dry sump, it had the oil tank built into the crankcase castings which greatly damped the notorious British parallel twin vibrations. When made it was the most powerful British production bike at 50bhp, and was a delightful long distance and all round bike. Took it from the south coast to Germany and to Amsterdam, and up here to Scotland. Had plenty of foibles, like a front brake that barely worked in the rain and a scissor action clutch that would sometimes come apart while riding, but I have very fond memories of it.
One of the beauties of the British bikes was that they were so easy to work on, you could strip the bike down, cylinder head off, barrels off, at the side of the road in an hour or so. Somewhat different to a modern Japanese machine!
After being without a bike for a number of years with young children, I got back in with an Indian built RE Bullet 500, the Electra X. The engine was a lean-burn designed by a Swiss team, and despite living where there are hardly any straight or flat roads, it consistently did 100mpg. Biking friends said it would be always breaking down, but it was very reliable, just a bit slow, but a sweet thing to ride if you weren't in a hurry. The new REs do have a good reputation for simple, affordable, sound engineering.

Quite fancy one of the Royal Enfields. Classic looks with modernish reliability. Motorcycling for me is more fun and enjoyable pottering about B roads at 50 rather than 150+ mph superbikes.

 

[Robotstar5]

A lot of common UK car designs were sold overseas and continued for many years after they were discontinued here showing there is / was a market for a basic car at the right price.

When Metro production ended in 98 we would pinch bits off the lines to use in other areas until they fenced it off as it had been sold, can't recall who to.

 

[finyuk2005]

Yes I think the old A and B series production line were years out of date. The K though was all new, to tight tollerances. I had a sideline in buying rover 200s, head off, skim and rebuild (as long as the engine hadn't overheated to soft). Mostly I found the radiator was knackered - nothing to do with the engine. Also I repaired dozens of gearboxes - a Peugeot box adapted to the K, first motion shaft bearing, easy fix, I used to have them on rotation. The 8V K was snails pace, if you had the 16V k series it was anything but slow.
I rebuilt an 8 valve that had broken its cambelt, get towed home in gear. The conrod was in hundreds of bits. Second hand head, rod and liner, clean and rebuild, went for years.
I had a 1.6 K mini in here once, on Dellortos. bits everywhere. It turned out the Delortos had sucked in the clasp from the makeshift air filter - that got a used piston and rod, don't remember if the head survived. It took me 3 24mile test drives to clear the oil, antifreeze, water from the exhaust, but boy did it shift - it was eating gears as fast as I could change them - a right hooligan machine...

I always wondered why my first 1.4 rover 25 only ever did 30mpg.. and my second one a few year after (bought for a few hundred with HGF, took a punt on a £20 head out a scrappies! ran sweet as a nut after!) well i could easily get 45mpg out of that one...
Then i realised that i wasnt 18 years old anymore and had learnt that you can indeed change gears before 7000rpm

 

[Greeves246]

Built in India now, nd have been for a long time. Cheap bikes, the likes of Triumph have brought out a load of sub 500cc bikes to compete with them here (UK) and in India. A new (Indian Built) 400 trump is less than 2.5k in India (about £6.5k here)

Triumph Speed 400 is £4995, Scrambler 400 £5495
Which Triumph have you bought as the majority are built in Thailand?

 

[Morrisman]

With blurred vision would you be able to tell what speed you were doing anyway ?

Reminds me the 1200 Sportster I briefly owned….. blurred clocks, mirrors, and vision, at certain rpm. Seriously uncomfortable for riding any distance.

 

[dobbslc]

I managed to vibrate my own feet off the foot pegs once on my 250 single race bike when I missed a gear coming out of the Devil's Elbow at Mallory Park

 

[frank horton]

had 4 Vincents.....utter carp....spent a fortune on em....still carp.....
sold em and bought my first house with the cash.....hahaha......
loads of other brit stuff as there was nothing else other than Lambretta and Vespa.....
then Honda appeared......first product was was a 50 for low miles commute, never looked back.........
Never bought anything with major electronics, cars or bikes from anywhere/country......
cos I'm a miserable old sxd.....
loads of diff cars, most memerable MK1 Cortina 1500, Saab Sport,.....and a 3 month old Marina van which I converted with a 1.5BMC, "D", did 1/2 mill miles in that and then sold it on.....slow but so good MPG.....
lastly, the nicest car of all was an as new 300D Merc, W123.....
all I'd like now is an old gen Lexus and a "D" Toyota 4x4 pick up....
Might just get the new 125 equiv of a Honda 50.....still doing 100mpg.....ish....

 

[Morrisman]

Built in India now, nd have been for a long time. Cheap bikes, the likes of Triumph have brought out a load of sub 500cc bikes to compete with them here (UK) and in India. A new (Indian Built) 400 trump is less than 2.5k in India (about £6.5k here)

Guy I know bought an Enfield 411 last year. Some new version of the big single, though I’ve not seen it yet as he has only ridden it 3 times, and fell off the second time turning round at walking speed….. I think he’s a bit wary of it now.

 

[Morrisman]

Triumph Speed 400 is £4995, Scrambler 400 £5495
Which Triumph have you bought as the majority are built in Thailand?

Triumph were recently claiming that all bike manufacture would be done in this country in the near future, and that they were building a big new factory to do it. No idea how true that is.

 

[Erie Fred]

..... he has only ridden it 3 times, and fell off the second time turning round at walking speed….. I think he’s a bit wary of it now.

 

[Shox Dr]

Which Triumph have you bought as the majority are built in Thailand?

I dont know what models are been built at Hinckley. My 900 Rally Pro was built last Friday. It was delivered to the dealer on Wednesday. I get it next week

 

[owas]

My land rover is still doing daily driving duties at 38 years old.

I should retire it as some point ..

 

[Smallfry]

Can't really discuss this without mentioning the Unions, and the great long term contribution they made for the ordinary working man.

That is sarcasm in case it is not clear.

One of my first jobs was at Hobourn Eaton, who made lubrication and power steering pumps for the British motor industry. I do not remember any products made for foreign brands.
Had five or six strikes in the two years I was there. As a young lad, it was just some days off, albeit with no pay, which did not bother me much at that time. It was a "closed shop" and the Unions were the TGWU and the AUEW. Strikes were generally because the company management wanted to install new machinery, or change working practices. The one that sticks in my mind was being out for a whole week because someone had been sacked for stealing company property, and the unions wanted him reinstated. I mean, really

 

[Robotstar5]

There was a good series on the collapse of the British car industry on Youtube, this is the first part

 

[Erie Fred]

I saw this a few years ago, thought it covered some points pretty well.
I also like the one about square steering wheels.....

 

[Rannsachair]

Interesting thread, I still run a 21 year year old Defender and a handful of English bikes from the mid 50's to 69. My first car was a mini and I have fond memories of a MG Metro I ran for a few years, great wee car, never let me down and sold it for more than I paid for it.

Looking at the statistics striking became prevalent in the 70's and 80's, becoming pretty insignificant from the 90's.

The British motorcycle industry is a real interest to me (worked for Triumph in design in 89/90), have read a fair bit around it from Whatever happened to the British Motorcycle Industry to The Strange Death of the British Motorcycle Industry and concluded previously

After ww2 Britain was broke, massive war debt to repay. Government policy directed manufacturers to export to bring in cash, from 45 that's what the big bike manufacturers did using largely clapped out machine tools from war production. They had been market leaders before the war and products initially sold well. Exports focused on larger bikes and smaller bike manufacture declined.

Then you had owners of the big manufacturers not investing in their products, so no major investment.

The italian's and Japanese initially moved into the smaller bike market, developing innovative designs and using more advanced manufacturing methods, the nail was in the coffin of the UK bike industry by the 1950's.

Much as my 69 T120 was from the end of the British Motorcycle industry, it handled well, better than comparable jap bikes and had a well developed engine (with its foibles).
And in my opinion is still one of the best looking bikes ever built.

 

[oldbikedavey]

Interesting thread, I still run a 21 year year old Defender and a handful of English bikes from the mid 50's to 69. My first car was a mini and I have fond memories of a MG Metro I ran for a few years, great wee car, never let me down and sold it for more than I paid for it.

Looking at the statistics striking became prevalent in the 70's and 80's, becoming pretty insignificant from the 90's.

The British motorcycle industry is a real interest to me (worked for Triumph in design in 89/90), have read a fair bit around it from Whatever happened to the British Motorcycle Industry to The Strange Death of the British Motorcycle Industry and concluded previously

After ww2 Britain was broke, massive war debt to repay. Government policy directed manufacturers to export to bring in cash, from 45 that's what the big bike manufacturers did using largely clapped out machine tools from war production. They had been market leaders before the war and products initially sold well. Exports focused on larger bikes and smaller bike manufacture declined.

Then you had owners of the big manufacturers not investing in their products, so no major investment.

The italian's and Japanese initially moved into the smaller bike market, developing innovative designs and using more advanced manufacturing methods, the nail was in the coffin of the UK bike industry by the 1950's.

Much as my 69 T120 was from the end of the British Motorcycle industry, it handled well, better than comparable jap bikes and had a well developed engine (with its foibles).
And in my opinion is still one of the best looking bikes ever built.
View attachment 439904

Thruxtonise one of those, and they are around 65 bhp. A good one, nearer 70 bhp....

 

[roofman]

No one has mentioned the Triumph TR7, new factory and new model destroyed by unionist fanatics