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Chris Stevens
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Welded a fair amount of anodised, and sanding is the best way to remove before welding. It is possible to weld without removing though, but quite fiddly.
- Thread starter Gizmo.Y
- Start date
No idea on the Quality/ type of alloy material i have. When i picked up the bottle they had a skip outside near the bottle store and i hand picked a few of the better looking scraps in there purely for testing. I also bought some New Stock for a catch tank i want to build as my first TIG Project.
I will admit - I did no cleaning of the metal prior to welding, it wasn't until i was reading this thread last night i thought "**Language**, that's where i went wrong!", its been sat outside in the elements for god knows how long. I also lack any "Cleaner" apart from the usual Brake and Carb cleaner (But I've read horror story's of using those to clean metal before welding) - so i will source some Acetone i think and some scotch pads.
I will also admit - I've never picked up a TIG Before, those first 3 welds on that sheet was literally the first time i picked up a tig torch and managed to get a puddle (after the first replies who told me my angle was way off/ arcing issue).
I'm more of a Pick it up and learn it person, i do pick up a ton from watching tutorial videos. With the welder came some Tutorials from Eastwood (Which are also available on their Youtube) and i picked up lots from watching those.
I will admit - I did no cleaning of the metal prior to welding, it wasn't until i was reading this thread last night i thought "**Language**, that's where i went wrong!", its been sat outside in the elements for god knows how long. I also lack any "Cleaner" apart from the usual Brake and Carb cleaner (But I've read horror story's of using those to clean metal before welding) - so i will source some Acetone i think and some scotch pads.
I will also admit - I've never picked up a TIG Before, those first 3 welds on that sheet was literally the first time i picked up a tig torch and managed to get a puddle (after the first replies who told me my angle was way off/ arcing issue).
I'm more of a Pick it up and learn it person, i do pick up a ton from watching tutorial videos. With the welder came some Tutorials from Eastwood (Which are also available on their Youtube) and i picked up lots from watching those.
zx9
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The Halogens (Florocarbons ?) in brake cleaner that caused the problem were banned in the UK years ago, there have been many threads on here discussing the use of brake cleaner.
C
Chris Stevens
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Brake cleaner produces very nasty fumes when heated, so best to stick to acetone for cleaning, which can be had for good price from GRP supply places.
Gawd, more fairy tales about brake cleaner 
Heating/striking an arc on a surface wet with any highly flammable solvent is not the best idea. Chlorinated solvents can decompose into phosgene when heated and/or exposed to enough UV. There will always be a clue on the container somewhere... trichloroethylene, perchloroethylene etc etc
In Europe most (all?) chlorinated solvents have been banned or regulated/restricted for environmental reasons... look on the tin or msds of any tin of brake cleaner bought in the UK and it will state something along the lines of "contains no chlorinated hydrocarbons". There are various recipes about, only Septics have to worry about the chlorinated variety while in Europe they are various solvents used... the Pagid stuff i've currently got is ~50% acetone with the balance being toluene and methyl alcohol. Some are basically pure n-heptane, others contain lots of different hydrocarbons
Lots of common solvents / degreasers WILL leave a residue behind... white spirit for example is a bad idea, methylated spirits fine. IPA is about the healthiest choice but not a very good solvent compared to stuff like acetone or brake cleaner. Brake cleaner has the advantage of being cheaply available from pretty much anywhere in the known universe
Can't identify materials from a photo, that said the ally the OP is using looks like plain ol' rolled sheet to me; common flavours being 1050-h14 and 5251-h22. Anodising is an artificially grown oxide layer, thicker and more uniform (and sometimes dyed) than the naturally occurring version. Dead easy to spot in person as 1. the surface will feel slicker than bare ally, 2. you're hands won't turn black when handling/working with it and 3. fingerprints on it are less noticeable/wipe off more easily. If it had been anodised in this case the welds would be waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than a couple of sooty marks from the usual touch downs and melting filler wire with the arc that happens all the time when learning and occasionally to even the best
Heating/striking an arc on a surface wet with any highly flammable solvent is not the best idea. Chlorinated solvents can decompose into phosgene when heated and/or exposed to enough UV. There will always be a clue on the container somewhere... trichloroethylene, perchloroethylene etc etc
In Europe most (all?) chlorinated solvents have been banned or regulated/restricted for environmental reasons... look on the tin or msds of any tin of brake cleaner bought in the UK and it will state something along the lines of "contains no chlorinated hydrocarbons". There are various recipes about, only Septics have to worry about the chlorinated variety while in Europe they are various solvents used... the Pagid stuff i've currently got is ~50% acetone with the balance being toluene and methyl alcohol. Some are basically pure n-heptane, others contain lots of different hydrocarbons
Lots of common solvents / degreasers WILL leave a residue behind... white spirit for example is a bad idea, methylated spirits fine. IPA is about the healthiest choice but not a very good solvent compared to stuff like acetone or brake cleaner. Brake cleaner has the advantage of being cheaply available from pretty much anywhere in the known universe
Can't identify materials from a photo, that said the ally the OP is using looks like plain ol' rolled sheet to me; common flavours being 1050-h14 and 5251-h22. Anodising is an artificially grown oxide layer, thicker and more uniform (and sometimes dyed) than the naturally occurring version. Dead easy to spot in person as 1. the surface will feel slicker than bare ally, 2. you're hands won't turn black when handling/working with it and 3. fingerprints on it are less noticeable/wipe off more easily. If it had been anodised in this case the welds would be waaaaaaaaaaaay worse than a couple of sooty marks from the usual touch downs and melting filler wire with the arc that happens all the time when learning and occasionally to even the best
C
Chris Stevens
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Is it worth taking a chance using brake cleaner, when acetone is almost as cheap and pretty easy to get hold of?
There are no chances with brake cleaner in the UK besides the usual risks that apply to any volatile solvent... fire, fumes in enclosed spaces, dermatitis etc
It's only places like America where brake cleaner exists as both chlorinated and non-chlorinated flavours. They ARE clearly labelled as such and tins of the chlorinated variety even tell anyone capable of reading that they can decompose into very toxic stuff including phosgene gas and shouldn't be used near open flames or welding operations etc
http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html is a link to what probably started all this nonsense about brake cleaner being a toxic ticket to death. If the idiot that nearly killed himself had read the bloody label and not been stupid enough to strike an arc on a part still wet with solvents these fairy tales wouldn't keep coming up
Round my neck of the woods the only source of pure acetone i'm aware of is a fibreglass supplier 10 miles away. Brake cleaner on the other hand, 3 motor factors almost within spitting distance, it's cheaper and exists as aerosols as well as gallon tins for use with a spray applicator they also sell. The harder part is convincing people that despite what's often claimed on the internet stuff does not to be religiously degreased prior to welding unless 1. it is actually greasy/oily and 2. fingerprint oils don't count unless it's Ti and/or you work in aerospace
It's only places like America where brake cleaner exists as both chlorinated and non-chlorinated flavours. They ARE clearly labelled as such and tins of the chlorinated variety even tell anyone capable of reading that they can decompose into very toxic stuff including phosgene gas and shouldn't be used near open flames or welding operations etc
http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html is a link to what probably started all this nonsense about brake cleaner being a toxic ticket to death. If the idiot that nearly killed himself had read the bloody label and not been stupid enough to strike an arc on a part still wet with solvents these fairy tales wouldn't keep coming up
Round my neck of the woods the only source of pure acetone i'm aware of is a fibreglass supplier 10 miles away. Brake cleaner on the other hand, 3 motor factors almost within spitting distance, it's cheaper and exists as aerosols as well as gallon tins for use with a spray applicator they also sell. The harder part is convincing people that despite what's often claimed on the internet stuff does not to be religiously degreased prior to welding unless 1. it is actually greasy/oily and 2. fingerprint oils don't count unless it's Ti and/or you work in aerospace
Brad93
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As hotrodder says when I first started TIG welding people were banging on about cleanliness and acetone wire brush etc etc, all rubbish unless you're doing xray work imo. If anything I wasted time cleaning stuff that was fine to use rather than welding and realising Torch angle or distance of electrode from the piece was too big etc.
All advice taken on board chaps! much appreciated.
Spent about an hour in the garage tonight just laying beads. although i spent about 45 minutes of that grinding back the bloody tungsten! I appear to be struggling to get "Comfy" as you will see with the pictures below - weld starts off nice but then i start to get uncomfortable mid-weld which changes my torch speed and filler angle, and of course touching the filler rod and tungsten... I think my bench maybe too high.
Also, any advice on Gloves? Using MIG gloves i've had for ages, but i'm finding them to be too stiff for tig work.
Another breakthrough is tungsten prep. i was sharpening too steep and flattening the tip. I've started to have a narrow head with sharp point (as pictured) i'm finding this MUCH easier! I also cannot get used to this damn pedal. maybe due to comfort? All these welds where done using the trigger on the torch. (No Pulse on this welder, Trigger or Pedal)
Need to find me some tungsten's now however! that is how much I've worn it down within the hour...The welder came supplied with a single Green and Red. Any advice on which direction to go? The Yanks seem to rate the Purple tungstens highly...
Spent about an hour in the garage tonight just laying beads. although i spent about 45 minutes of that grinding back the bloody tungsten! I appear to be struggling to get "Comfy" as you will see with the pictures below - weld starts off nice but then i start to get uncomfortable mid-weld which changes my torch speed and filler angle, and of course touching the filler rod and tungsten... I think my bench maybe too high.
Also, any advice on Gloves? Using MIG gloves i've had for ages, but i'm finding them to be too stiff for tig work.
Another breakthrough is tungsten prep. i was sharpening too steep and flattening the tip. I've started to have a narrow head with sharp point (as pictured) i'm finding this MUCH easier! I also cannot get used to this damn pedal. maybe due to comfort? All these welds where done using the trigger on the torch. (No Pulse on this welder, Trigger or Pedal)
Need to find me some tungsten's now however! that is how much I've worn it down within the hour...The welder came supplied with a single Green and Red. Any advice on which direction to go? The Yanks seem to rate the Purple tungstens highly...
Paul.
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Your torch angle in the video is far to low, you need to be about 20deg from vertical, use a bigger ceramic to improve the gas coverage, for AC grind the tungsten like a crayon,
you could flatten off the end a bit and reduce the stickout, you could even have it level with the ceramic, it will help to prevent you touching down, or touching the filler rod, with the electrode.
Run a few beads and the point will turn onto a nice shiny ball.
Electrode prep here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/w/index.php?title=AC_Electrode_preparation.
And a tig tutorial here if you haven't already found it, http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tig-tutorial.htm
you could flatten off the end a bit and reduce the stickout, you could even have it level with the ceramic, it will help to prevent you touching down, or touching the filler rod, with the electrode.
Run a few beads and the point will turn onto a nice shiny ball.
Electrode prep here http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/w/index.php?title=AC_Electrode_preparation.
And a tig tutorial here if you haven't already found it, http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/tig-tutorial.htm
Screwdriver
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I paid good money to study welding at college. I'm not going to ignore information I have paid for and instead believe some random blokes on the internet who seem to think its ok to TIG weld dirty aluminium.
Good luck with that.
S.
Good luck with that.
S.
Richard.
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If it's dirty then it needs cleaning. If it's not then there is no need to start ruining and scrubbing the surface finish. A lot of people believe the oxide layer needs to be removed prior to welding which simply isn't the case. You'll find it actually welds nicer and more stable when it has something to push aside. Steel is the worst because that does need to be bright and free of all scale, rust etc
Brad93
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I use the leather gloves Ultima Gold, £5 plus the VAT from BOC. The Ultima Deerskin gloves come up really big I've found.
Jackson Curved TIG gloves are really nice, but hard to find.
With the leather gloves there is a method by which you can custom fit them to your hands.
Jackson Curved TIG gloves are really nice, but hard to find.
With the leather gloves there is a method by which you can custom fit them to your hands.
daleyd
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It's not the fact that the torch gets hot, you really should think about getting a pair to stop harmful UV from the welding process. Even if your hands don't feel hot they will be getting damaged by the UV - skin cancer is not nice.
Richard.
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These are my favourite choice of glove now.
It's right and I'll be honest there are moments with thin gaged filler wire where I'm not wearing one on my left particularly if I'm feeding through fingers. But the reality is the harmful rays can easily burn your hand without you knowing about it. For the money I think the ultima golds are near on perfect for me. I highly reccommend them.
It's right and I'll be honest there are moments with thin gaged filler wire where I'm not wearing one on my left particularly if I'm feeding through fingers. But the reality is the harmful rays can easily burn your hand without you knowing about it. For the money I think the ultima golds are near on perfect for me. I highly reccommend them. 