GavJ
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Looks like a handy unit, how does it perform? Have you tried it in anger yet...... I could do with a metal work band saw and being able to use it as a chop saw as well........ bonus
- Thread starter monkeymark
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JEZGUZ
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- 1,025
The vice I purchased from Mr Skotl arrived yesterday. A couple of days ago I had a mad moment and grabbed a 6" rotary table that was lurking on facebook , it's missing the small dial but I'm not going to be needing parts of a degree accuracy, 3 pairs of parallels and some end mills.
James1979
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Is there a workaround/ procedure for them please?
Wife’s parents have a Ducato based motor home
25.4_mechanic
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- Germany, southwest
Will perhaps be something around the overvoltage problem: If a charger encounters a battery with a very low charge level, it will - except for the modern fully electronic ones that reject doing anything at all - increase the voltage accordingly, which the "advanced" electronics of some newer vehicles do not appreciate very much.
Our Sprinter 216CDI is right on the verge year-wise, I haven't shot anything yet, but always afraid when charging or bridging.
So, workaround would be to bridge from another fully charged battery, not a charger or a running vehicle.
Carsten
--
The Artilleryman
Member
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- 449
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- Boston UK
I know with my Peugeot MH, that there are specific connection points under the bonnet for jump starting.
Tangledfeet
Think outside, no box required.
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The Femi bandsaws are great and I mourn the loss of mine; I dropped it a couple of years ago...
Tangledfeet
Think outside, no box required.
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You're right; just checked the PDF manual for the Movano in a quiet moment at work - specifically says not to use a jump starter but to use another vehicle or a battery.
No not in real anger yet, set it up and chomped a bit of scrap, nice and accurate but I have quite a few runs of about 150mm through 15mm mild in upright to do at the weekend so that should tell me, the PO said it was a great bit of kit and very accurate. Downloaded the manual for it as its free :-), I can say that is pants!
Melvyn Best
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- Cambridge
I think the only safe way is to keep the battery charged, suspect the problem is caused by a voltage spike ? A surge protector as used for welding might help but I have no personal experience using one jump starting. If your in laws have problems there is a company called Crashdata that can repair the ECU if it is possible , they turned mine around in 3 days from posting to getting it back for around £80
James1979
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Cheers Carsten. This has been talked about in the world of trucks at the moment - customer of mine got his yard man to jump start a truck and it blew the main ecu. He maintains that it’s because the guy didn’t put lights on main beam on the dead vehicle to act as a dummy load. I am not convinced.Will perhaps be something around the overvoltage problem: If a charger encounters a battery with a very low charge level, it will - except for the modern fully electronic ones that reject doing anything at all - increase the voltage accordingly, which the "advanced" electronics of some newer vehicles do not appreciate very much.
Our Sprinter 216CDI is right on the verge year-wise, I haven't shot anything yet, but always afraid when charging or bridging.
So, workaround would be to bridge from another fully charged battery, not a charger or a running vehicle.
Carsten
--
I am reasonably sure I killed the immobiliser ECU in my old navara jump starting it although I’ll never be 100% sure
James1979
Member
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That’s worth knowing. I use a guy called Martin at vantuner but he can’t always do every make / model.
Melvyn Best
Member
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A new ECU from Fiat is around £400 but are on back order , they then need programming to the vehicle at whatever Fiat charge , all plus VAT . Repairing the original removes the need for programming
25.4_mechanic
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Neither am I, James; why should the rules from the filament bulb days apply to a car so modern that it has an ECU?
If there is an engine tester on it that gets its rev signal from the alternator of the car under test and is unable to synchronise to that signal, then it occasionally helps to switch on consumers like headlights and heating even today .... in the other case I don't see the reasoning ....
Carsten
--
Farside
Badly Welded Man
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Might be they're referring to the workshop starter/charge/booster boxes that are mains powered. Some of them are brutal on batteries, especially the old ones, and still plenty of them around. They'd definitely give electronics a hard time.
Modern vehicle electrics are pretty bulletproof, but there are some older modules that don't have much over-voltage protection.
The main one I know of is the older air suspension modules on trucks, which could only tolerate 30V. A knackered battery and a boost charger could quite quickly get the system over that.
It wouldn't surprise me if Fiat are still using an airbag module from that same era, as they only update modules when they really have to, unlike other manufacturers who usually update modules when they bring out new/updated models.
There are two times where you're likely to damage modules.
When you connect the jump leads. Always use the recommended connection points, and double check you have them the right way around.
Damage from jump leads attached to the wrong place can be expensive (most common one I've seen was older transits where people had used the wiper motor mount, but the wiper motor/linkage sits on rubber mounts, so it pretty quickly melts all the wiper motor wiring).
As long as there is some life in the flat battery, the worst you're likely to get by connecting the wrong way around is a big spark, but if the battery is completely flat, there will be very little resistance to reversing the voltage, and most automotive modules will release their magic smoke very quickly if their voltage is reversed.
The other time is when you remove the jump leads/pack from something that has a completely flat battery. The battery acts as a big surge suppressor, so as soon as you remove a jump lead, the vehicle is relying on it's own battery. If that battery has been completely flat, it'll likely have quite a high resistance and be unable to suppress the switching of the alternator and other high switching loads, which can lead to some very noticeable voltage spikes running through the system. Switching the lights on will go a long way to smoothing those spikes, as it helps provide a stable load to smooth the alternator output, until the point the battery starts accepting charge.
However modern automotive modules should be pretty resilient, as the required standards have improved greatly (IIRC the relevant standard requires the module to withstand over 100V transients). But things like reverse polarity can and will instantly destroy modules.
The main one I know of is the older air suspension modules on trucks, which could only tolerate 30V. A knackered battery and a boost charger could quite quickly get the system over that.
It wouldn't surprise me if Fiat are still using an airbag module from that same era, as they only update modules when they really have to, unlike other manufacturers who usually update modules when they bring out new/updated models.
There are two times where you're likely to damage modules.
When you connect the jump leads. Always use the recommended connection points, and double check you have them the right way around.
Damage from jump leads attached to the wrong place can be expensive (most common one I've seen was older transits where people had used the wiper motor mount, but the wiper motor/linkage sits on rubber mounts, so it pretty quickly melts all the wiper motor wiring).
As long as there is some life in the flat battery, the worst you're likely to get by connecting the wrong way around is a big spark, but if the battery is completely flat, there will be very little resistance to reversing the voltage, and most automotive modules will release their magic smoke very quickly if their voltage is reversed.
The other time is when you remove the jump leads/pack from something that has a completely flat battery. The battery acts as a big surge suppressor, so as soon as you remove a jump lead, the vehicle is relying on it's own battery. If that battery has been completely flat, it'll likely have quite a high resistance and be unable to suppress the switching of the alternator and other high switching loads, which can lead to some very noticeable voltage spikes running through the system. Switching the lights on will go a long way to smoothing those spikes, as it helps provide a stable load to smooth the alternator output, until the point the battery starts accepting charge.
However modern automotive modules should be pretty resilient, as the required standards have improved greatly (IIRC the relevant standard requires the module to withstand over 100V transients). But things like reverse polarity can and will instantly destroy modules.
Tangledfeet
Think outside, no box required.
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- Top of a hill above St Andrews, Fife
You may well have a point... here's the page itself:
I just took a 'quick charger' as being a jump starter of the type I've bought! Thanks.
The_Yellow_Ardvark
https://www.death-clock.org/
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Slim pickings, so far this week.
One shop asked.
"Our you just browsing? I am to busy for browsers."
So I left the 4 items of railway history on his till and left, saying.
No I wasn't.
But I got this from another charity shop. I missed most if not all of the tools by 2 days.
This was left.
ESP on brass ladies "hip" flask. Complete with someting liquid and smelly.
Even @Barking Mat would of bulked at drinking it.
Hotel Milk for scale.
A semi empty resistor kit. I have filled it up with resistors I will find usefull.
Bottom RHS second box in from the right.
The large blue item.
Retails at £70
One of my salvaged spares.
Again, semi full. I have re filled it with the contents of 3 part used box's.
Space in the van.
This pucture trimmer is going to be restored, soon.
One shop asked.
"Our you just browsing? I am to busy for browsers."
So I left the 4 items of railway history on his till and left, saying.
No I wasn't.
But I got this from another charity shop. I missed most if not all of the tools by 2 days.
This was left.
ESP on brass ladies "hip" flask. Complete with someting liquid and smelly.
Even @Barking Mat would of bulked at drinking it.
Hotel Milk for scale.
A semi empty resistor kit. I have filled it up with resistors I will find usefull.
Bottom RHS second box in from the right.
The large blue item.
Retails at £70
One of my salvaged spares.
Again, semi full. I have re filled it with the contents of 3 part used box's.
Space in the van.
This pucture trimmer is going to be restored, soon.
Barking Mat
Cuddler of hedgehogs.
- Messages
- 12,928
- Location
- France, Brittany.
Love the guillotine.
