paradipiro
Member
- Messages
- 98
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
I can make a rough drawing of mine's back cover this weekend, if that helps.
- Thread starter Pete.
- Start date
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
Thanks but I already have that covered. In fact I have a timber form ready-made as a pattern for the cover to fit up to
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
Makng a new button plate for the machine controls. I would have liked to use the original but it has a shape to it that makes fitting modern switches difficult without permanent modification. I figured if I was going to machne the original I might as well make a new one that suits panel switches more readily.
So this is Mk1, getting drilled for switches:
And here it it part fitted-up. That is not the final arrangement because I am figuring out how to use the original motor switch for 2-speed control fwd and rev. So the R-0-F switch will probably end up being a creep button to turn the motor dead slow for ease of changing gear.
One of the kids has a nice Cri-cut machine and she said she will cut a mask for the plate with all the writing etc on it.
So this is Mk1, getting drilled for switches:
And here it it part fitted-up. That is not the final arrangement because I am figuring out how to use the original motor switch for 2-speed control fwd and rev. So the R-0-F switch will probably end up being a creep button to turn the motor dead slow for ease of changing gear.
One of the kids has a nice Cri-cut machine and she said she will cut a mask for the plate with all the writing etc on it.
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
I stripped and re-configured the pole-changing switch to control the VFD in the same fashion as it did when it was a 2-speed motor. It uses 4 digital inputs (though I think I can get away with 3) on the VFD. Right now Green and blue switch between the fast and slow set-points (initially will be 50hz and 100hz to emulate the 2 speed motor) whilst white and yellow select forward and reverse. Black is common to all. I haven't done the parameters yet so it acts a bit funky but because of that I've discovered that I might not need 2 inputs for the setpoints which will be handy because it might allow me to use an input for a super-slow 'creep' button to run the motor at 5hz for changing the gearbox gears. I'll probably run through the input parameters tomorrow and see how it pans out.
paradipiro
Member
- Messages
- 98
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
Will you use the original, open, dahlander motor, or replace it to a modern, enclosed one?
The phase switch is different from mine, as I see, yours has rollers in the contractors.
Nice feature.
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
New button plate done and fitted. I am not overly satisfied with the graphice, I spent ages drawing it up in Inkscape (which I've never used, so had to take a crash course (wing it). Then when I exported it to the cricut app the writing was missing. Something about vectors and paths, whatever I got fed up and exported it as a PNG, opened it up in the cricut app and it did cut it out but lost a lot of definition. One day I'll sit down and learn it properly but for now it's reasonable and it works.
If there are any inkscape gurus out there can take a look at my SVG file and see where I've gone wrong I'd be grateful.
The original motor control lever functions exactly as the original, it just changes the frequency and direction in the VFD controls.
If there are any inkscape gurus out there can take a look at my SVG file and see where I've gone wrong I'd be grateful.
The original motor control lever functions exactly as the original, it just changes the frequency and direction in the VFD controls.
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
I drew them up in Inkscape and then my daughter cut them on her cricut machine. Inkscape is free software and easy enough to draw with but if you're going to cut graphics from the desing it needs to be a vector. That's the bit I couldn't get right. I need to learn more about the whole process.
Here's my design as drawn.
Here's my design as drawn.
Smouser
Member
- Messages
- 1,062
- Location
- Amesbury, Wiltshire, UK
Thanks.
I used Adobe Illustrator to modify the vector file which had my Elliott signs in which I had designed for the Elliott.
I could not have made the sign from scratch on Adobe Illustrator as I had no experience in it. However, once the main design was done and I only had to edit/add to it I got to grips with the basic function of the programme pretty quickly.
The great thing with vector graphics are that you can infinitely scale them. Unlike png, jpg, bmp etc. which loses quality as you enlarge them.
I used Adobe Illustrator to modify the vector file which had my Elliott signs in which I had designed for the Elliott.
I could not have made the sign from scratch on Adobe Illustrator as I had no experience in it. However, once the main design was done and I only had to edit/add to it I got to grips with the basic function of the programme pretty quickly.
The great thing with vector graphics are that you can infinitely scale them. Unlike png, jpg, bmp etc. which loses quality as you enlarge them.
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
Been out in the workshop this evening for the first time in a couple of weeks. I am trying to figure out a tidy way to mount the DRO scales. I'm trying to fit the scales so that the scale moves and the head stays fixed so that the cables aren't travelling back and forth constantly. Easily done on the x axis scale as it will just about fit on the underside of the console table without being proud of the face where it would undoubtedly get knocked about when swapping tables.
I will probably make a pair of tall aluminium tee nuts that fix in place with grub screws then bolt the scale to the face of the tee nut.
I will probably make a pair of tall aluminium tee nuts that fix in place with grub screws then bolt the scale to the face of the tee nut.
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
I got the X scale mounted this evening. Bolted it directly to the underside of the table, to leave the tee slot free and to allow space for the brackets that hold the reading head.
Just the Z and Y scale to do, the Y scale will be easy enough but the Z scale is going to be a bit more tricky to get a tidy installation.
Just the Z and Y scale to do, the Y scale will be easy enough but the Z scale is going to be a bit more tricky to get a tidy installation.
paradipiro
Member
- Messages
- 98
- Location
- Budapest, Hungary
Nice!
A made a small block for the X scale reader, what I bolted to the original block holder scale.
I mounted the Z scale on to the right side of the column, where the original dial gauge setup was.
And finally replaced the original dahlander switch to a new (chinesium) one, so I also made some progress..
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
I got the y-axis scale fixed and working today. Like the x-axis I have the reading head fixed and the scale moving because this makes managing the cables a whole lot easier.
After deciding a mounting location that allows the slide locks to still work and the oiling points to be accessible I fixed a 90 degree angle to mount the reading head. Putting a 1-2-3 block on it showed that it needed tweaking a little as it was not at the same angle as the mounting face for the scale.
A little bit of tweaking to bend it down and now it's acceptable
After that it was just a matter of mounting the reader head to the bracket and the scale to the slide by drilling and tapping a pair of M4 holes.
Time to line it up. The scale needs to run parallel to the movement of the slide so that it 1, reads properly and 2, doesn't rub on the scale or housing as it moves. To do this I set an indicator on the side and traversed the y axis. I had to shim one end of the scale with a piece of folded paper and got it parallel to 1 thou over 6 inches of travel.
Then I adjusted it the other direction and managed to get it within a couple of tenths.
I plugged the scales into the display and both display properly and read correctly.
Just the Z axis to install now, sort out the cable runs and decide on a mounting location for the console that will not interfere with swapping over the milling heads.
After deciding a mounting location that allows the slide locks to still work and the oiling points to be accessible I fixed a 90 degree angle to mount the reading head. Putting a 1-2-3 block on it showed that it needed tweaking a little as it was not at the same angle as the mounting face for the scale.
A little bit of tweaking to bend it down and now it's acceptable
After that it was just a matter of mounting the reader head to the bracket and the scale to the slide by drilling and tapping a pair of M4 holes.
Time to line it up. The scale needs to run parallel to the movement of the slide so that it 1, reads properly and 2, doesn't rub on the scale or housing as it moves. To do this I set an indicator on the side and traversed the y axis. I had to shim one end of the scale with a piece of folded paper and got it parallel to 1 thou over 6 inches of travel.
Then I adjusted it the other direction and managed to get it within a couple of tenths.
I plugged the scales into the display and both display properly and read correctly.
Just the Z axis to install now, sort out the cable runs and decide on a mounting location for the console that will not interfere with swapping over the milling heads.
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
I got the Z axis installed today after giving it a lot of deliberation. I know that @paradipiro put his on the controls side of the machine but that would mean removing the standard Z vernier scale and dial indicator stop, which in truth I will probably never use, but it also has all of the controls plus it's right next to the door and would also mean I'd need to run the DRO cables both sides of the machine rather than run them as a pair. So I put a lot of work into squeezing it over the top of the Z-axis stops on the same side as the x-axis reader and this has made for a very tidy install.
I had an old cast ally right-angle bracket left over from a previous install which would make one half of the reader head mount. Since the head is tucked in a notch in the machine I had to cut it down quite a lot. I set it all up on the table with a packer underneath, held the reader head down against the scale (with the protector installed) and fixed the bracket to it to make sure that the bottom of the bracket was dead parallel to the scale.
I cut an old ally angle bracket from my scrap box to make the connection between the above bracket and the Z slide. It was quite a tight fit getting it all in between the Z and X slide locking levers.
The scale itself was mounted on two turned ally posts which were fitted with studs and screwed into the bottom of the tee slot groove. They stand the scale off by 28mm to clear the stops. The stops have to remain because they kick out the auto-feed at the limits of travel - they are actually adjustable but I'll never use them so they just act as limit stops to protect the feed system.
Once it was mounted I had to adjust the scale to be parallel with the z slide movement. I achieved just 1 thou of runout over 8" of travel which is miles better than is necessary but since getting it that good was no harder than good enough that's what it got.
Now in this pic you can see why I worked so hard to get the scale mounted this side instead of the much simpler route of the opposite side. The x-axis head is fixed in x but of course the whole slide travels up and down and it moves with that. The Z scale is the only fixed one and the head is fixed to the slide quite close to the X reader head (not by accident). This allowed me to pair the cables and run them in a loop to leave enough slack for full up and down travel. I stuck a sticky pad on the machine to hold them with a cable tie to get the routing sorted.
Now I know from experience that those sticky pads never stay put so I drew up some clips and 3-d printed them in hyper PLA on my K1 printer.
After that it was just a matter of fixing the clips strategically to make a nice tidy run for all of the cables.
So I'm very pleased with all of this and it brings me a big step closer to a finished and working machine.
I had an old cast ally right-angle bracket left over from a previous install which would make one half of the reader head mount. Since the head is tucked in a notch in the machine I had to cut it down quite a lot. I set it all up on the table with a packer underneath, held the reader head down against the scale (with the protector installed) and fixed the bracket to it to make sure that the bottom of the bracket was dead parallel to the scale.
I cut an old ally angle bracket from my scrap box to make the connection between the above bracket and the Z slide. It was quite a tight fit getting it all in between the Z and X slide locking levers.
The scale itself was mounted on two turned ally posts which were fitted with studs and screwed into the bottom of the tee slot groove. They stand the scale off by 28mm to clear the stops. The stops have to remain because they kick out the auto-feed at the limits of travel - they are actually adjustable but I'll never use them so they just act as limit stops to protect the feed system.
Once it was mounted I had to adjust the scale to be parallel with the z slide movement. I achieved just 1 thou of runout over 8" of travel which is miles better than is necessary but since getting it that good was no harder than good enough that's what it got.
Now in this pic you can see why I worked so hard to get the scale mounted this side instead of the much simpler route of the opposite side. The x-axis head is fixed in x but of course the whole slide travels up and down and it moves with that. The Z scale is the only fixed one and the head is fixed to the slide quite close to the X reader head (not by accident). This allowed me to pair the cables and run them in a loop to leave enough slack for full up and down travel. I stuck a sticky pad on the machine to hold them with a cable tie to get the routing sorted.
Now I know from experience that those sticky pads never stay put so I drew up some clips and 3-d printed them in hyper PLA on my K1 printer.
After that it was just a matter of fixing the clips strategically to make a nice tidy run for all of the cables.
So I'm very pleased with all of this and it brings me a big step closer to a finished and working machine.
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
I had a visit from @Dcal yesterday and he helped me tackle a job which I've been wrangling over for a while now. This machine uses a MT4 taper in the main horizontal spindle and vertical head spindle. Like many industrial spec machined of it's day it has a pocket in the front of the spindle with driving flats which provide positive drive for whatever tool is held in the taper. The benefit of this is that there is no danger of ever spinning a taper and trashing the spindle but the down-side is that the tooling is very uncommon. Modern MT4 taper tooling is fairly accessible but none of it has the extended nose and driving flats. Not having the flats is no concern to me but what IS an issue is that every bit of non-extended
MT4 tooling I have tried hits the end of the spindle nose before it engages in the taper, so it simply can't be used. I have a very nice Kaiser boring and facing head which I cannot use on this machine because it will not seat in the spindle taper - it's close, but just not quite enough.
The solution, which might seem unpalatable to some but not so much to me (this is going to be a working machine after all not a showpiece) is to shorten the spindle nose somewhat so that is what we did.
We blued up a new MT4 taper and seated it in the spindle then scribed around the outside and measured it with calipers to get the seating diameter right at the end of the spindle taper socket. Then we measured the diameter of the standard taper end (on several pieces to get an average, which actually turned out all within 0.15mm). We marked a line on the taper gauge at this diameter and then measured the distance between the two lines, This showed that the standard modern taper stuff I have would seat with approximately 10mm of taper poking out the you could add in the distance from the taper to the back of the tool (usually 2-3mm) and that would give you the maximum depth of driving pocket so this stuff will fit (the pictures later will show the problem more clearly if this is difficult to follow). The pocket itself was 15mm deep so to achieve this we'd need to cut 5-6mm off the end of the spindle. I went with 6mm for comfort as these measurements are not easy to take.
I also had previously checked how deep the driving flats of the arbors I have here went into the original pocket and it was more than 10mm on most, so if we cut it just right we should not only create clearance for the non-extended tooling you can buy today but also maintain some drive engagement for the horizontal cutter arbors which do use a lot of torque when working and would be the most likely to spin the taper.
So, how to cut this off? The spindle is fully hardened and interrupted cut so turning it off whilst possible cermet would probably be slow and expensive. Parting with carbide not an option so I went with what we had at hand and used a mini grinder. I have a nice heavy duty Metabo on here which we bolted to a block of steel then clamped the steel block onto the mill table with a large cast iron spacer underneath using the clamping kit. We squared the grinder up with the travel and used an extra clamp to spring the unit downwards to hold the cutting disc plumb with the spindle face too.
We'd already taped over the top of the machine, so we covered as much as we could with sheeting, put a piece of metal on the sheet so the sparks didn't set fire to it, fired up the grinder and with the spindle turning slowly very carefully fed the cutting disc into the spindle using the x-axis feed.
The cutting didn't take long and a quick check showed that the results came out just about perfect. You can just about se the end of the MT4 taper in the gap so the measurements were perfect. The boring head now fits in the spindle taper and so does the MT4/ER32 collet holder I have bought. I also have other tooling such as drill chuck arbors which I can now use in the spindle.
I tried a piece of original tooling in it and yes it does still engage with the driving flats by a few mm so that was a success too
Most of the grit and iron dust was caught in the cloth cover, but the machine is getting a thorough clean anyway.
Finally I wanted to improve the finish on the end of the spindle. The disc did cut through right on line but it doesn't look great and the thin disc inevitably has some flex especially at the start of the cut so we set my Union grinder up on the table, dressed the cup wheel and used that to grind a lovely flat face on the end of the spindle, then applied a tiny chamfer using the same.
Here's the finished job. I'm very happy with how it has come out. Just got to do it all over again with the vertical head spindle.
MT4 tooling I have tried hits the end of the spindle nose before it engages in the taper, so it simply can't be used. I have a very nice Kaiser boring and facing head which I cannot use on this machine because it will not seat in the spindle taper - it's close, but just not quite enough.
The solution, which might seem unpalatable to some but not so much to me (this is going to be a working machine after all not a showpiece) is to shorten the spindle nose somewhat so that is what we did.
We blued up a new MT4 taper and seated it in the spindle then scribed around the outside and measured it with calipers to get the seating diameter right at the end of the spindle taper socket. Then we measured the diameter of the standard taper end (on several pieces to get an average, which actually turned out all within 0.15mm). We marked a line on the taper gauge at this diameter and then measured the distance between the two lines, This showed that the standard modern taper stuff I have would seat with approximately 10mm of taper poking out the you could add in the distance from the taper to the back of the tool (usually 2-3mm) and that would give you the maximum depth of driving pocket so this stuff will fit (the pictures later will show the problem more clearly if this is difficult to follow). The pocket itself was 15mm deep so to achieve this we'd need to cut 5-6mm off the end of the spindle. I went with 6mm for comfort as these measurements are not easy to take.
I also had previously checked how deep the driving flats of the arbors I have here went into the original pocket and it was more than 10mm on most, so if we cut it just right we should not only create clearance for the non-extended tooling you can buy today but also maintain some drive engagement for the horizontal cutter arbors which do use a lot of torque when working and would be the most likely to spin the taper.
So, how to cut this off? The spindle is fully hardened and interrupted cut so turning it off whilst possible cermet would probably be slow and expensive. Parting with carbide not an option so I went with what we had at hand and used a mini grinder. I have a nice heavy duty Metabo on here which we bolted to a block of steel then clamped the steel block onto the mill table with a large cast iron spacer underneath using the clamping kit. We squared the grinder up with the travel and used an extra clamp to spring the unit downwards to hold the cutting disc plumb with the spindle face too.
We'd already taped over the top of the machine, so we covered as much as we could with sheeting, put a piece of metal on the sheet so the sparks didn't set fire to it, fired up the grinder and with the spindle turning slowly very carefully fed the cutting disc into the spindle using the x-axis feed.
The cutting didn't take long and a quick check showed that the results came out just about perfect. You can just about se the end of the MT4 taper in the gap so the measurements were perfect. The boring head now fits in the spindle taper and so does the MT4/ER32 collet holder I have bought. I also have other tooling such as drill chuck arbors which I can now use in the spindle.
I tried a piece of original tooling in it and yes it does still engage with the driving flats by a few mm so that was a success too
Most of the grit and iron dust was caught in the cloth cover, but the machine is getting a thorough clean anyway.
Finally I wanted to improve the finish on the end of the spindle. The disc did cut through right on line but it doesn't look great and the thin disc inevitably has some flex especially at the start of the cut so we set my Union grinder up on the table, dressed the cup wheel and used that to grind a lovely flat face on the end of the spindle, then applied a tiny chamfer using the same.
Here's the finished job. I'm very happy with how it has come out. Just got to do it all over again with the vertical head spindle.
Pete.
Member
- Messages
- 14,466
- Location
- Kent, UK
Actually the cloth was held by magnets along the edge so hopefully anything that did travel that way would be caught by them. Either way, a good vacuum clean-up is on the cards today.
I did once use a vac to collect live grinding debris and melted a hole in the flexi pipe on a bend
Windy Miller
Semi-Professional Potterer!
- Messages
- 3,598
- Location
- North Kent, UK
Wow that’s brilliant!
Proper squeaky bum engineering!
Proper squeaky bum engineering!
