Vertical up

[Richard.]

weave for the cove

Personally I'd split off into 2 on the cap and run stringers. I don't like big wide weaves. They look hideous and have the mechanical properties of a chocolate bar.

 

[8ob]

I have found the easiest way to teach someone to weld vertically is to practice on the bench in stages, start at 45 degrees with practice pieces in fillet and butts. As and when you conquer that bring the practice pieces up until you are vertical, then over time carry on coming over 90 degrees in increments until you are on overheads. Rod angle vs rod size vs amps will become obvious, this has worked for us on a few lads we have had in the workshops. Its worth doing anyway because its all typical of stick welding real world situations.

Bob

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

Personally I'd split off into 2 on the cap and run stringers. I don't like big wide weaves. They look hideous and have the mechanical properties of a chocolate bar.

That's an interesting opinion there Richard. Personally I think that a weave cover is beautiful when done well. As for it's mechanical properties I can only say it's held up well on all the jobs I've done.

Edit: if you are referring to a weave say 2 or more times larger than the root then I'd have to agree it's time to run stringers.

 

[Richard.]

Ok a chocolate bar is perhaps a slight exaggeration but grain refinement from multiple passes will always produce the Tougher joint. In a v prep I would pop in a hot* pass to punch into the root and these are going to have some weaving going on to get good toe wetting but very minimal. As soon as I can fit 2 in side by side I will.
* I say hot but in reality the current level pretty much stays the same start to finish.
The ops weave is just something I'd never entertain personally.


Edit. Weaves are slow and hot.
They bring no advantage to a weld from a tough or strength mechanical POV
You should only weave when you have to weave. I.e. To help maintain weld profile in out of positional joints. Weave size should be always kept to a minimum.

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

Yes grain structure will be affected with weave, luckily for me as long as I follow wps that not something I have to massively worry about!

As you said a small bit of weave/ osciliation will help root go in nicely, and stop it's sagging which I've found generic 6013 are prone to.

@Richard. Can I pick your brains about overhead open root? I am struggling to achieve adequate reinforcement.

 

[Brad93]

Yes grain structure will be affected with weave, luckily for me as long as I follow wps that not something I have to massively worry about!

As you said a small bit of weave/ osciliation will help root go in nicely, and stop it's sagging which I've found generic 6013 are prone to.

@Richard. Can I pick your brains about overhead open root? I am struggling to achieve adequate reinforcement.

Are you using DCEN on your open root?

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

@Brad93 I've tried dcen and ep using 6013, but we use oerlikon spezial at work that must be run dcep.

I'm running similar set up as to flat butt, just slight increase to amperage, but I'm finding that instead of leaving reinforcement the backside is concave.

 

[Brad93]

I can't comment on 6013. I very rarely use them because of the hydrogen.

I use a 7016-1 such as a Filarc 56S.

A Spezial is a Zirconium Basic rod so runs a bit like a rutile. The problem with this is you don't get the mechanicals of a full out basic rod and because of the way it runs there is a greater propensity for porosity. They only achieve approval to H10 or H15 too.

A 2.5 or 3.2mm Filarc 56S with a 2.5mm gap is how I would do it. 80A for the 2.5. Around 105A for the 3.2mm.

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

Cheers brad, I will have a play when I get a chance and report back here.

 

[Brad93]

When I go back to work in a week, I'll run some 6013, some spezial and some 7016. Try to give you some settings.

I've been meaning to weld a coupon all the way out overhead for ages. Something always comes up and I'll do the root but never get round to the rest.

 

[dannyp]

Personally I'd split off into 2 on the cap and run stringers. I don't like big wide weaves. They look hideous and have the mechanical properties of a chocolate bar.

what is it with tig welders in particular, and massive weaves espectaly some of the FB groups all you ever see is wider and wider weaves to the point you'd think they were stringers run the wrong way,

i've found distortion is much less of an issue with stringers, on some of the repair work much less likely to see repeat breackages near the weld in what would be the HAZ, i recon a good stack of stringers looks better, and i find it easyer to do

 

[Richard.]

what is it with tig welders in particular, and massive weaves espectaly some of the FB groups all you ever see is wider and wider weaves to the point you'd think they were stringers run the wrong way,

i've found distortion is much less of an issue with stringers, on some of the repair work much less likely to see repeat breackages near the weld in what would be the HAZ, i recon a good stack of stringers looks better, and i find it easyer to do

With tig the weave is done by cup walking and it’s done like this because it’s way faster than freehand in a prep. That said I quite agree some of them weaves are way OTT on the width and could of been split off into multiple runs and still allowed for a cup walk. The position demands torch manipulation to maintain a profile while fighting gravity but I keep it to a minimum personally and split off as soon as there is sufficient space to do so. Put a 3 run cap up against single run cap on a set of charpies under the same welding conditions and the 3 run will win every time.

 

[Richard.]

@Richard. Can I pick your brains about overhead open root? I am struggling to achieve adequate reinforcement.

Sorry mate I’ve just seen this. I don’t do much with the rutiles either and I had a go with those spezial things the other day and as Brad said they are a bit of a hybrid rod. Advantages from both rutiles and basics but not really either one.
For an open root if I could chose anything I’d stove a 6010 in down hand and bash low hys on top of it.
Or I’d put a 2.5 7016 in a 2.5mm gap with a 1mm face. V up at 80-85amps and cap with 3.2 at just over 100-110. (Zero arc force works best with 2.5 and 15% with 3.2 I found)
With a rutile I’d have to have a play. I actually work near Brad quite often sometimes so if I see him next week I’ll have a nosey at what he’s doing and see if either of us wallys can put something half decent on a plate.

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

Cheers for that rich, v up and flat open roots aren't to much trouble, just this overhead struggling with reinforcement on the root, when I get a chance I'm going to have a play with brads set up, I'll post some pics when I do.

 

[Richard.]

Brads very good indeed with the the sticks.
I'm confident he'll have some settings/techniques put together for you at some point.

 

[olek]

are not back plate (ceramics) insolators used often for those ?

I thought of using copper tubing for double wedge and copper plate as a heat sink at the back (if possible indeed)

should help, is not it ?

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

I'm not sure olek, but most my welding is machinery repair so setting up backing plates can often be impossible, prefer to just listen learn and practise that way I'm not reliant on anything other than my skill set.

 

[olek]

Sure but can it be advantageous for training to use a heatsink for thin steel?

Or it may give bad habits.

I understood the ceramic backings concentrate the heat at the root which is very different indeed.

 

[Brad93]

Ceramics are use with flux core, certain GMAW applications and electroslag processes.

Ceramics support the weld pool and improve backside shielding.
You still use an open root.
Ceramics won't provide any heat sink effect.

 

[olek]

Yes thanks I did get that but is a heat sink à tool to learn open root more easily (less keyhole risk)