What industries use stick these days?

[Kent]

I think the issue here is jobs needing a good mma welder are advertised in different places than your looking.

Stick welding remains essential to construction and industry

 

[zeppelin builder]

“It is after all the strongest weld for thickish sections”

The weld metal is no stronger than that deposited with GMAW or GTAW.

look up the Alexander L. Keilland rig disaster 1980 ish the bracings ruptured all started by a 6mm fillet of poor profile' lots of people killed no warning snapped like a carrot and turned over
was mig welded in the early 80s in france
NO ONE would entertain mig welding for years after that
by the first oil slump the wires were improving by leaps and bounds and were
gaining approval by most of the big insurance bods lloyds,Dnv,Abs etc
fortunes were made by the fabrication companies due to the increased production
up to 3x quicker ,wages did not go up 3x sadly and semi skilled operators and platers got in on it and started welding secondary steel
spawning the term Fabricator ,Welder

 

[Brad93]

look up the Alexander L. Keilland rig disaster 1980 ish the bracings ruptured all started by a 6mm fillet of poor profile' lots of people killed no warning snapped like a carrot and turned over
was mig welded in the early 80s in france
NO ONE would entertain mig welding for years after that
by the first oil slump the wires were improving by leaps and bounds and were
gaining approval by most of the big insurance bods lloyds,Dnv,Abs etc
fortunes were made by the fabrication companies due to the increased production
up to 3x quicker ,wages did not go up 3x sadly and semi skilled operators and platers got in on it and started welding secondary steel
spawning the term Fabricator ,Welder

That’s down to poor quality consumable or welder skill.

A 80ksi wire is the same strength as an 80ksi rod at the end of the day.

 

[TechnicAl]

https://www.twi-global.com/news-events/case-studies/alexander-l-kielland-accommodation-platform-145/

Report says a number of contributory factors.

Im struggling to remember but I thought it was a stick weld that failed as it has been blocked in over a bare wire....a cheat to speed up the job....but my memory isnt what it was....???? In 1976 would MIG be used in a Yard???

 

[Dieselman 63]

Mig pipeline welding in 1968. Note the gas shroud since it was outside. In the film they follow up with layers and layers of stick, but later on in the job the mig was dropped as it was too slow. Impressive for the time nonetheless.

 

[zeppelin builder]

granted ! but mig is very suspect on lack of fusion . horizontal buttwelds in particular
ive seen it lots of dig outs that had to be stick repaired

 

[Gwil]

That’s down to poor quality consumable or welder skill.

A 80ksi wire is the same strength as an 80ksi rod at the end of the day.

No question. But the issue is the penetration surely?

 

[Kent]

No question. But the issue is the penetration surely?

Exactly its how the weld is deposited. Most of the time the weld metal will intentionally be stronger than the parent metal as we already know

 

[TechnicAl]

granted ! but mig is very suspect on lack of fusion . horizontal buttwelds in particular
ive seen it lots of dig outs that had to be stick repaired

Thats true especially Side wall LOF when using CO2...back in the 70s most MIG was CO2....it was sometime later when Ar rich started. I remember the Reps going round demo-ing a new wire that welded better...in fact it was the gas....I think that would be mid 80s....even then MIG was classed as semi-skilled welding which is why Im sceptical about MIG being used in 1976 on the Kielland....it was built in France but to American specs........for a long while there was no AWS for MIG wire....Lincoln called it small diameter Sub Arc Wire as they wouldnt make anything unless it had an AWS standard......but I dont know the date of the first AWS A5.18....

 

[Brad93]

No question. But the issue is the penetration surely?

You get more penetration with GMAW than SMAW.

 

[Stingray]

You get more penetration with GMAW than SMAW.

It’s only my opinion but this may only be the case with downhand in certain cases, Now GSFCAW is a different animal altogether...

 

[Farside]

The bloke who reads our water meter also has a small stick set in the back of the van. Keep meaning to ask what he uses it for but forget every time.

Thawing pipes? Although, I'd think most rural supplies wouldn't be in steel / iron / copper conductive pipes nowadays. There might be a couple of properties on his route where it could be useful, though.

 

[Brad93]

It’s only my opinion but this may only be the case with downhand in certain cases, Now GSFCAW is a different animal altogether...

Yes I’m speaking of downhand.

GSFCAW is often lacking penetration in the 2F position. Particularly all positional wires.

 

[Kent]

Thats true especially Side wall LOF when using CO2...back in the 70s most MIG was CO2....it was sometime later when Ar rich started. I remember the Reps going round demo-ing a new wire that welded better...in fact it was the gas....I think that would be mid 80s....even then MIG was classed as semi-skilled welding which is why Im sceptical about MIG being used in 1976 on the Kielland....it was built in France but to American specs........for a long while there was no AWS for MIG wire....Lincoln called it small diameter Sub Arc Wire as they wouldnt make anything unless it had an AWS standard......but I dont know the date of the first AWS A5.18....

It was 86-87 that the switch occurred in my case I remember the boc guy Comming in (the firm where also agents for boc) the gaffer asked me to put it on my machine to test it.. By the end of the day everyone had a do and loved it argoshield 5 I think.. We switched straight over on every machine

 

[Stingray]

Yes I’m speaking of downhand.

GSFCAW is often lacking penetration in the 2F position. Particularly all positional wires.

In the wrong hands yes, but with the correct torch angle (on pipelines if you trust your mate on the other side get them to drag the top quarter up for you ), speed up a little and keep your wire at the edge of the pool you’ll have no troubles!

 

[Brad93]

In the wrong hands yes, but with the correct torch angle (on pipelines if you trust your mate on the other side get them to drag the top quarter up for you ), speed up a little and keep your wire at the edge of the pool you’ll have no troubles!

Even when doing everything right I’ve had lack of fusion. Set up on a robot so consistent travel speed and stick out.

 

[Stingray]

Even when doing everything right I’ve had lack of fusion. Set up on a robot so consistent travel speed and stick out.

GSFCAW tried and tested on 1000’s of manual welds on Subsea Pipelines, even on SCR’s, a robot (or bug on a pipeline) is only as good as the person that’s programmed it

 

[Brad93]

GSFCAW tried and tested on 1000’s of manual welds on Subsea Pipelines, even on SCR’s, a robot (or bug on a pipeline) is only as good as the person that’s programmed it

You're talking about pipe. I'm talking about 2F fillets.

 

[MichaelV]

...keep your wire at the edge of the pool you’ll have no troubles!

Wise words

 

[MichaelV]

Just as another reference point, I believe EEMUA158 places GMAW among those processes which are prohibited by default unless specific steps are taken to substantiate and qualify its use. By contrast, MMA is an accepted process by default. I’m aware of at least one North Sea operator whose standards exclude the use of GMAW.

In fairness, a discussion of penetration is incomplete in the absence of consideration of joint design and fit up.

Michael