Mr Roo
Member
- Messages
- 594
- Location
- Edinburgh
sticking a concrete slab on that without piling will lead to a sizeable “underground bunker” given enough time…
especially if you throw a wobbly lathe on top!
- Thread starter Brad93
- Start date
sticking a concrete slab on that without piling will lead to a sizeable “underground bunker” given enough time…
especially if you throw a wobbly lathe on top!
8ob
Member
- Messages
- 13,825
- Location
- Nescient in the vale
A chat with the LA, soil samples and a structural engineer before you do anything. May get away with a ring beam if there is shale under the clay, last one we did revealed a peat bed at 13 feet so that had to be piled. It all depends on what's down there and it isn't expensive to find out.
Bob
Bob
- Messages
- 6,329
Over my life Iv built around a dozen porta frames for both myself and customers, Iv done it 2 ways either copy an existing design or bought a standard drawing package , for exec type 1 buildings specific structural calcs are not necessary there are standard sizes for materials that are based on geographic location.
Groundwork's again dont need to be OTT either ring beam or pads and often choice is personal preference, recently iv just borded pads with a 900mm auger on an excavator to around a 1m, in 30 years iv never had pads move!
Iv got a few drawing packages mono pitch/ apex etc that could easily be adapted, I have the drawings for this one I did for a customer in 2019, iirc its around a 35' span with 12 degree pitch, took us a day to get the frame up if the fabs right with the right gear and 3 decent guys they really are childs play, If you want the package of drawings plus a few extras I can email you a copy.
- Messages
- 6,329
Iv got 60 year old Atcosts which weigh double what porta frames are sitting on less than 500m2 of pads, the slabs were shuttered in when the buildings were converted from cattle to grain in the 1970s 6" no reinforceing, In the 1980s to the 1990s I used to fill them to the gunnels (as I was paid by the ton) and I mean to the apex with wheat stored for a local flour mill, Slabs would take dead load of over 1000Ts for 10 months then spot and live loaded with bulkers and our old Volvo loading shovel we had at the time during emptying and filling, On each post there is still the original daturams with the 5' marks for the shuttering care to guess how much the London clay sub base has given over the years?
I did have a back wall start to move once, as a temporary measure I cut some telegraph poles and used the 150 year old brick barn I now live in and converted to a house as a brace, which has about much under it as a greenhouse.......
I do believe brads building his own workshop not a nuclear bunker and probably isnt overly worried about it being there for the next 3 generations.
Brad93
Member
- Messages
- 18,351
- Location
- Essex, United Kingdom
The current workshop was a pole barn converted to games room then torn down and workshop was built from scrap and seconds.
As a fellow Essex resident you probably know all about the clay and sinking. Brentwood is particularly bad.
Our current base Is cracking up and one end of the workshop is sinking. But who knows the construction methods.
my lathe currently sites on a pad we had poured (from a truck) and that hasn't moved.
In the future I'd be looking to have a siegmund rail & trestles system so I need a good base that is flat and smooth, relatively.
I can build the 10x5 first as that's going to be the machine shop.
Brad93
Member
- Messages
- 18,351
- Location
- Essex, United Kingdom
PM INCOMING
over here, they sell pre-fabricated agricultural buildings, install foundations, buy, and build them yourself, kit based. these will be based on standard drawings I suppose.
www.agristandard2000.fr
ok this is in french, but the photos will give you some ideas, there must be a uk equivelent proposing the same sort of standarised agricultural buildings thing. They have their own design office so might be able to sort out the drawings only, leaving the fab to yourself,
You could probably find something similar and adapt the design to your requirements? suppose the real problem would be the planning permission etc....
Agri Standard 2000 | Bâtiments agricoles en charpente métallique
Agri Standard 2000 est spécialiste dans le bâtiment agricole, centre équestre et hangar en charpente métallique standard ou sur-mesure.
www.agristandard2000.fr
ok this is in french, but the photos will give you some ideas, there must be a uk equivelent proposing the same sort of standarised agricultural buildings thing. They have their own design office so might be able to sort out the drawings only, leaving the fab to yourself,
You could probably find something similar and adapt the design to your requirements? suppose the real problem would be the planning permission etc....
Revs1972
Member
- Messages
- 1,843
- Location
- Torquay, UK
Thats about the money for what you are looking for. I asked a mate for a ball park on the size you mention and he said £90k. Add on a lean to and galvanise then its North of £110k. And thats Devon prices
If you go the making it your self route then i would recommend bolt on cleats for your cold rolled. If you buy the steel in cut and drilled , it makes it quicker to fabricate, plus easier to load etc. Usefull when going to the galvanisers are there are no purlin plates for them to bend (speaking from experience)
The actual fabrication of the steel is a relatively small portion of the overall price. Im sure you are more than capable of fabricating it, but i would go down the route of having it made by a certified fabrication company if you are planning to use it commercially to satisfy your insurance, future selling etc.
If its for personal use in your back garden then crack on and make it yourself.
You'll have plenty of time to fabricate it mind, lead times on cold rolled and cladding are in the months these days. Recent job had 20 week leadtime on both.
If you budget around £1.5k for design and detailing. That should include the cladding drawings too. Another mate who recently got planning on a build of 650m2 was charged £4500 by the council for the pleasure of his planning application. So you will need to allow for that as well, although it shouldnt be as much as that. (Its done on size i believe).
Its not a cheap game at the moment as mentioned before.
Brad93
Member
- Messages
- 18,351
- Location
- Essex, United Kingdom
We are replacing existing. There won't be a problem with planning. If there is, there a plenty of instances down out road where we can say well it's okay for no. 21 but not for us?Thats about the money for what you are looking for. I asked a mate for a ball park on the size you mention and he said £90k. Add on a lean to and galvanise then its North of £110k. And thats Devon prices
If you go the making it your self route then i would recommend bolt on cleats for your cold rolled. If you buy the steel in cut and drilled , it makes it quicker to fabricate, plus easier to load etc. Usefull when going to the galvanisers are there are no purlin plates for them to bend (speaking from experience)
The actual fabrication of the steel is a relatively small portion of the overall price. Im sure you are more than capable of fabricating it, but i would go down the route of having it made by a certified fabrication company if you are planning to use it commercially to satisfy your insurance, future selling etc.
If its for personal use in your back garden then crack on and make it yourself.
You'll have plenty of time to fabricate it mind, lead times on cold rolled and cladding are in the months these days. Recent job had 20 week leadtime on both.
If you budget around £1.5k for design and detailing. That should include the cladding drawings too. Another mate who recently got planning on a build of 650m2 was charged £4500 by the council for the pleasure of his planning application. So you will need to allow for that as well, although it shouldnt be as much as that. (Its done on size i believe).
Its not a cheap game at the moment as mentioned before.
Revs1972
Member
- Messages
- 1,843
- Location
- Torquay, UK
They'll want their pound of flesh
LiftedDisco
Member
- Messages
- 116
- Location
- Towcester, UK
@Brad93 - did I give you a price for the shed? If not, PM me an e-mail addy and I can fire something over.
The challenge is that not only are steel prices heading north on a monthly basis, but also the cold rolled for cladding rails etc is now advised as being on 20 week lead times. Cladding panels have a similar issue - the steel sheet is getting ever-more expensive and now we have the added problem that the chemicals they use for the insulation are in short supply and, again, 20 week lead times!
Madness... you really couldn’t start to make it up...
Later edit... just been back through my e-mails and see I’d offered a price at the end of September ‘20! Let me know if you want me to revisit this at all!
Rob
The challenge is that not only are steel prices heading north on a monthly basis, but also the cold rolled for cladding rails etc is now advised as being on 20 week lead times. Cladding panels have a similar issue - the steel sheet is getting ever-more expensive and now we have the added problem that the chemicals they use for the insulation are in short supply and, again, 20 week lead times!
Madness... you really couldn’t start to make it up...
Later edit... just been back through my e-mails and see I’d offered a price at the end of September ‘20! Let me know if you want me to revisit this at all!
Rob
- Messages
- 6,329
Im on london clay also! actually worse im on the silt at the end of the themes estuary, where the themes, The roach and the crouch converge although im not an expert as im the third generation thats worked these soils and constructing on them, I have somewhat of a local knowledge of them.
Where we are we have around 6" of heavy london clay that then turns to blue clay, the nothing solid for the next several hundred feet, so pileing has always been pointless and the traditional building methods have always been rafts, the local docks gets about 30 years out of slabs if done correctly, the roads have continual use of live loads of well in excess of 50Ts you can feal the shake across the whole 30 acres as the ground moves as one, the problems usually occur when you get mixed soil types, we have pockets of gravel pushed around from the ice age but is seldom to any depth and can often create issues with buildings as it not only drys and saturates differently over time it also moves through the profile.
However in brads case the loading are tiny so properly constructed with a decent depth of sub base 5T would not even register as a load.
Iv mentioned to brad via PM I know of some decent guys who work in Essex clay day in day out who will advise according.
