1958 Deckel FP2

[DennisCA]

OK I am making a dedicated thread in the interests of keeping things clear and separated.

This is the mill when I got it home:

I noticed pretty much straight away that the X-axis is still stuck, the problem is that the tapered gib is really, really stuck, the gib screw looked like this:

The bit on the tapered gib that retains the screw has sheared off, the screw is bent and the gib has gotten stuck.

And a closer look at the scale head... Don't think a repair is possible of this.

 

[DennisCA]

Then I started disassembling the table:

Now I am removing the handwheels, side covers, lead screw and nut:

A tapered pin was so abused I had to drill it out and even then I wasn't able to pull it off without making a one-off tool for the job:

And that's where I am at now.

 

[DennisCA]

OK today I got the side covers off and I got the nut and screw out.

When I get the nut out though, which went pretty easy, I see the sleeve has gotten stuck in the nut, I am able to wiggle it but not get it loose:

Still it cleaned up fine, loaded with grease....

Threads look fine to me, different in design from other nuts I have seen for FP2s, no oil holes or grooves, just a simple nut.

And here is the upper gib after a pretty easy clean up. To my untrained eye it does not look very worn:

And the other side:

It will be interesting once the other gib comes loose to see what it looks like.

 

[DennisCA]

I have some refinishing questions, I know that when doing rebuilds and refinishing work often a putty is used to smooth out the cast iron surfaces, but can one use spray filler instead? I don't see why not but figured I should ask.

 

[MBB]

I had trouble with the FP2 I had. The power feed shear pin in the base kept on shearing and it was very difficult to line the shafts together to remove the broken bits of the pin. It could take hours to repair.

 

[DennisCA]

Was it also a victim of grease?

 

[MBB]

It was noisy full of grease digital readout non tilting table. I cant say it was a good machine I had a Thiel and that was just as bad. I have a pre FP1 Deckel now its a real antique that is very small and one of the first ones made for sale to other companies it only weighs about 150kg.my present deckle is the grey on at the bottom at link here

http://www.lathes.co.uk/deckel-early/

 

[DennisCA]

I hadn't have much to write, I have been too focused and too gloomy to really post my lack of progress. I had been stuck for nearly a week on the worlds most jammed gib. I had set up a jig using an M16 thread that I probably put tons of force on the table and gib (in the right direction yes). But nothing! Since then thing have remained as is, I have hammered on it and hosed it with penetrating oils, I have kept the pressure on it most of the t ime and today it finally gave. I sure didn't expect anything when I hammered on it this time with the copper tipped mallet but incredibly the gib moved???? Yes it finally moved. I couldn't believe it, I was starting to think this machine was broken beyond my ability to repair. Finally!

As you can see there's clear evidence of galling. I am sure the table side looks the same. This is what happens when you put grease where oil needs to be. I guess the people who used it couldn't get it fixed and sold it.

 

[MattH]

Well done mate.

 

[DennisCA]

Thanks! Here's some photos of the jig set up.

Operator side:

Door side:

Closeup of pushing arrangement on the gib small side:

 

[DennisCA]

Some lighter cosmetic work after all the heavy and serious engineering. The hub that the X-axis handwheel is mounted on has been a victim of visegrips more than once it looks like. Terrible... So I chucked it in the lathe and turned off a few hundredths (mm) to get the scratches out. Next up is also machining out the scratches on the aluminium handwheel.

 

[Carl Wilson]

Very well done Dennis. In the words of Leonardo Da Vinci, "every obstacle yields to persistent effort".

Thanks also for the detailed photos and descriptions of your methods.

My Harrison Mill has been greased instead of oiled as well. For years, it seems, by some diligent, well meaning but ultimately misguided individual. However, everything feels nice and free. So hopefully I won't have issues like yours.

 

[DennisCA]

Thanks, here's also an older photo showing a tool I made in order to loosen the backing plates a little, which was an early attempt to try and loosen the table. It might have contributed, I don't know for sure, but making tools seems be part of this project. Not very pretty tools however....

 

[Carl Wilson]

Pretty or not they get the job done.

 

[DennisCA]

Not much progress to report, family obligations have limited my time in the shop. Just got home and I stopped by a friend and got to borrow his scrapers, and two flat reference surfaces. The big one is in the wooden box and over a meter long. One of the scrapers he claims is ground for soft steel and the other for cast iron which is the usual double bevel negative rake. He is a good welder and I showed him the gib and he said he would definitely weld that if it was his call. Also got to borrow some copper backing plates as stops / heat sinks.

I am not sure how useful the longer ruler will be, I don't plan to scrape any ways flat at this moment, and it is not a camel back type nor a dovetail so it cannot get into where it needs to go and retain stiffness. But I got to borrow it, just in case.

Oh I need some blue marking ink. I would have liked canode based on what I heard but cannot find it online. I also hear alot about canode drying up quickly.

-Dykem Hi-spot I have found on ebay cheaply from the UK, good but smurfy
-Then there is the Diamant stuff from germany, I know less about this but the company are the moglice people apparently so they should know their stuff. More expensive than the dykem.
-Stuarts micrometer blue, oil based but washes off with methylated spirits. I am leaning towards this at the moment. And based on what I have read the tins are a PITA so a tube in that case.

Also got a missing part for the mill, an inching wheel from Franz Singer that goes on the back and which you use to rotate the spindle by hand, often needed when changing gears.

EDIT: Bought a tube of stuarts, some yellow or red might be nice to get as well for contrast but I did not find it from teh same seller. Maybe try another brand for that.

 

[God mode restorations]

There is a shortage of blue at the moment. I use Stuart's blue. Nice work on the mill. Big mills is on my next year's list of things to aquire

 

[Pete.]

Not much progress to report, family obligations have limited my time in the shop. Just got home and I stopped by a friend and got to borrow his scrapers, and two flat reference surfaces. The big one is in the wooden box and over a meter long. One of the scrapers he claims is ground for soft steel and the other for cast iron which is the usual double bevel negative rake. He is a good welder and I showed him the gib and he said he would definitely weld that if it was his call. Also got to borrow some copper backing plates as stops / heat sinks.

I am not sure how useful the longer ruler will be, I don't plan to scrape any ways flat at this moment, and it is not a camel back type nor a dovetail so it cannot get into where it needs to go and retain stiffness. But I got to borrow it, just in case.

Oh I need some blue marking ink. I would have liked canode based on what I heard but cannot find it online. I also hear alot about canode drying up quickly.

-Dykem Hi-spot I have found on ebay cheaply from the UK, good but smurfy
-Then there is the Diamant stuff from germany, I know less about this but the company are the moglice people apparently so they should know their stuff. More expensive than the dykem.
-Stuarts micrometer blue, oil based but washes off with methylated spirits. I am leaning towards this at the moment. And based on what I have read the tins are a PITA so a tube in that case.

Also got a missing part for the mill, an inching wheel from Franz Singer that goes on the back and which you use to rotate the spindle by hand, often needed when changing gears.

EDIT: Bought a tube of stuarts, some yellow or red might be nice to get as well for contrast but I did not find it from teh same seller. Maybe try another brand for that.

DON'T buy any Canode right now. I bought a 32oz bottle and had to send it back. I don't know what the hell they have done with it but it simply doesn't work. I'm waiting for their report until I can get a replacement.

 

[DennisCA]

Fortunately for me it doesn't seem to be available, impossible to find.

I dunno I might prefer the oil based stuff since it doesn't dry out as fast. Some red stuff might have been nice for contrast, I hear yellow is liked by some people but it seems red gives better contrast to me. Not required right now I think.

 

[DennisCA]

By the way how do you prefer to spread the blue, dauber or brayer or some other method?

 

[Carl Wilson]

I shall be watching and learning as you start doing the scraping.