- Thread starter DennisCA
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DennisCA
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I have continued the clean up the machine on the operator side and I started by removing the electrical switch.
This bolt on solution doesn't much please me, also the wire was put on the outside, in the original the wires went on the inside. The original holes seem to be just fine though, and it seems they might take some modern screw in switch and I could redo the wiring properly.
It's getting there... Still a lot of grime behind the controls, but progress is incremental.
I also removed the DRO and the scale and cleaned them up. The Y scale does not work either. It might be the lamp. I might be able to get the lamp from the other broken reader head swapped out.
Does anyone know if this unit is compatible with an LS 703 scale? These ones are LS 803. I have been offered one of these, 720mm total length, for cost of shipping. It is something that has been sitting in someones shop for 20 year, but worked when put away.
This bolt on solution doesn't much please me, also the wire was put on the outside, in the original the wires went on the inside. The original holes seem to be just fine though, and it seems they might take some modern screw in switch and I could redo the wiring properly.
It's getting there... Still a lot of grime behind the controls, but progress is incremental.
I also removed the DRO and the scale and cleaned them up. The Y scale does not work either. It might be the lamp. I might be able to get the lamp from the other broken reader head swapped out.
Does anyone know if this unit is compatible with an LS 703 scale? These ones are LS 803. I have been offered one of these, 720mm total length, for cost of shipping. It is something that has been sitting in someones shop for 20 year, but worked when put away.
Carl Wilson
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I take it the original switches were mounted in those holes?
Carl Wilson
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Really nice idea.
One of the things I think is quite tricky is building modern technology, eg vfd's etc, into classic machines and retaining the look and feel of the machines.
One of the things I think is quite tricky is building modern technology, eg vfd's etc, into classic machines and retaining the look and feel of the machines.
Pete.
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I use a hard rubber ink roller for Micrometer blue. A foam roller, or the ink roller for canode.
DennisCA
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Right now I am actually considering another idea someone gave me, which is make a plate using the holes the earlier owners drilled and shape it to the fit the boss, then I can drill holes in the plate. Perhaps easier than turning and threading two inserts, and it covers the holes made.
DennisCA
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Not much happening since last time, scrubbing and stuff, last night I was too tired to even go outside...
I bought a 600mm piece of 25x4mm carbon steel flat bar, I will use it to make my own hand scraper with removable inserts. A copy of the Biax though I will want it to be at least 45cm long. I have read lots on the PM forums about scraping.
I also found a Biax power scraper in a local auction, 100€ with two days to go, but it's pneumatic and not electric. Bet it will be very expensive once the auction runs out:
https://huutokaupat.com/1127024
And a pile of handscrapers but I don't need 32 of them so I am making my own. And based on my use of these I have borrowed I want a longer one so it will be at least 450mm OAL.
https://huutokaupat.com/1127005
I am looking for cheap carbide blades, or even just blades I can buy with reasonable cost and shipping. I found some russians on ebay selling scraping stuff, including russian carbide inserts, not sure if they are any good though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbide-Inserts-For-Scraping-25x30mm-WC6-UF/273577067769
I bought a 600mm piece of 25x4mm carbon steel flat bar, I will use it to make my own hand scraper with removable inserts. A copy of the Biax though I will want it to be at least 45cm long. I have read lots on the PM forums about scraping.
I also found a Biax power scraper in a local auction, 100€ with two days to go, but it's pneumatic and not electric. Bet it will be very expensive once the auction runs out:
https://huutokaupat.com/1127024
And a pile of handscrapers but I don't need 32 of them so I am making my own. And based on my use of these I have borrowed I want a longer one so it will be at least 450mm OAL.
https://huutokaupat.com/1127005
I am looking for cheap carbide blades, or even just blades I can buy with reasonable cost and shipping. I found some russians on ebay selling scraping stuff, including russian carbide inserts, not sure if they are any good though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carbide-Inserts-For-Scraping-25x30mm-WC6-UF/273577067769
DennisCA
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Been knocking tapered pins out, the upper hand wheel is in real nice shape, even the paint. I think it will just get an ultrasonic bath and some scrubbing. The pins are coming out quite easily this time but some of the controls are gonna be hard to pull off. I got one off though and there was a lot of junk in there I could get at and scrub away.
I've also given more though to the gantry crane that I am going to need and started a rough design in Fusion 360. Did a bucking load simulation on it, though I am no engineer, but this is at 11 times a load of 4.8 tons (itself three times that of the rated 1.6 tons I am going for), so I think I have the required margins. IPE-140 I-beam top and 90x90x4mm uprights that slot into bigger 100x100x4mm uprights for adjustable height, I will have a few holes drilled so a very large bolt can be slid through and locked in place, perhaps some bracing or reinforcement will be required at these points. The diagonals are 60x60x4mm.
Ofcourse in the simulation above, the feet are locked to the ground, Fusion doesn't seem to like the idea of having the feet being allowed to slide in two axises.
Rendering:
I've also given more though to the gantry crane that I am going to need and started a rough design in Fusion 360. Did a bucking load simulation on it, though I am no engineer, but this is at 11 times a load of 4.8 tons (itself three times that of the rated 1.6 tons I am going for), so I think I have the required margins. IPE-140 I-beam top and 90x90x4mm uprights that slot into bigger 100x100x4mm uprights for adjustable height, I will have a few holes drilled so a very large bolt can be slid through and locked in place, perhaps some bracing or reinforcement will be required at these points. The diagonals are 60x60x4mm.
Ofcourse in the simulation above, the feet are locked to the ground, Fusion doesn't seem to like the idea of having the feet being allowed to slide in two axises.
Rendering:
DennisCA
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I kept on scraping a little last night on this test piece of steel, it is really hard to use the scraper with the grind for steel, I found the cast iron one easier on steel to be honest.
But both are very difficult to "aim", I am wondering if the radius on the scraper should be smaller to make it easier to hit where you want. I don't have a radius gauge but drawing a radius on paper for comparisons sake is easy. It just seems too easy to hit on the sides and gouge or scratch the piece for me to think this is how it ought to be. Or maybe I underestimated the amount of muscle control / memory involved in scraping, even roughing. But I don't think so. I have read on the net about flat vs radiused scrapers and Richard King recommends a 60mm radius for general scraping and 20-40mm for pin point scraping.
I went out in the shop and drew some radiuses, 20, 40, 60, 100, 120 mm. The radius on the scraper seems to match the 120mm one best but it might be even larger, it's hard to tell. But definitely in my opinion + based on what I have read, it's too wide. My friend must have really struggled with this as I did when starting out. But I know him, when things get hard for me, I stop and start complaining and think it can't be this hard, something must be wrong, gonna look hard at how I can make this easier for me.... When things get hard for him, he just pushes on and works at it until he can do it without any problems. I also think there is a school of thought out there favoring hardly any radius on the scraping blades.
But both are very difficult to "aim", I am wondering if the radius on the scraper should be smaller to make it easier to hit where you want. I don't have a radius gauge but drawing a radius on paper for comparisons sake is easy. It just seems too easy to hit on the sides and gouge or scratch the piece for me to think this is how it ought to be. Or maybe I underestimated the amount of muscle control / memory involved in scraping, even roughing. But I don't think so. I have read on the net about flat vs radiused scrapers and Richard King recommends a 60mm radius for general scraping and 20-40mm for pin point scraping.
I went out in the shop and drew some radiuses, 20, 40, 60, 100, 120 mm. The radius on the scraper seems to match the 120mm one best but it might be even larger, it's hard to tell. But definitely in my opinion + based on what I have read, it's too wide. My friend must have really struggled with this as I did when starting out. But I know him, when things get hard for me, I stop and start complaining and think it can't be this hard, something must be wrong, gonna look hard at how I can make this easier for me.... When things get hard for him, he just pushes on and works at it until he can do it without any problems. I also think there is a school of thought out there favoring hardly any radius on the scraping blades.
Pete.
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Having such a large radius makes it VERY easy to dig a corner in and gouge your work. You can put a 2-3 thou gouge with no effort and that'll take 15 scrapes to get out (assuming you don't gouge it again). Go for a 60-90 radius until you get your hand in and know that you're not going to dig a corner. I've done it plenty of times but nowadays I don't even with a very flat scraper.
Another thing you can do is gently round the very edge of the tip so it doesn't cut at all. It won't gouge but it won't cut either and kind of negates the point of having such a wide tip.
Another thing you can do is gently round the very edge of the tip so it doesn't cut at all. It won't gouge but it won't cut either and kind of negates the point of having such a wide tip.
DennisCA
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Yeah but this is not my tool so I don't dare regrind it (don't even have the equipment). I bought one of those russian blades a few hours ago so hopefully soon I can put together my own scraper with my own tool grinds. It's a 20x25mm blade I got so I am thinking a 40mm radius on the 20mm side and 60mm radius on the 25mm wide sides. So one blade two different radiuses and 8 edges total.
Pete.
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Loads of people do that. I have a small radius for the dovetail scrapers because you need small scrapes. Otherwise I use 60-90. You can vary the scrape size by changing the angle that you hold the handle.
The biggest hurdle that people have when learning, especially if you have no-one to tutor you for a bit, is not getting the tip sharp enough. the difference between a tip you think is sharp and a tip which really is sharp is huge. Many people check the edge against the back of their thumbnail. A very gentle scrape will shave your nail if it's sharp otherwise it'll slide.
The biggest hurdle that people have when learning, especially if you have no-one to tutor you for a bit, is not getting the tip sharp enough. the difference between a tip you think is sharp and a tip which really is sharp is huge. Many people check the edge against the back of their thumbnail. A very gentle scrape will shave your nail if it's sharp otherwise it'll slide.
DennisCA
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I've done a lot of asking and debating and talking back and forth with various people over this weekend and come to the conclusion the gantry crane project is not realistic for my needs. I would be better of buying a commercial 2 ton shop crane / engine hoist and modifying it to suit my needs. Beefing up the construction and adding an option to make the legs spread wider (and reinforce that), Probably upgrade the castors on it too. So that is the path I am going down instead...
DennisCA
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Starting to feel a little better. Got the crane assembled last night, it seems it will reach where it needs to, in the 1500kg configuration here, but the extended support feet won't. The crane is built mainly from 70x70x3mm square tubing.
I will be buying some of that and welding a support post between the base and the main beam, those metal bands I don't give much for whatever support they are supposed add.... And I will weld more square tubing at a 90 degree angle on the sides of the base to build new mount points for the extended feet. That will create a space of 85cm between the feet, so a eur-pallet will fit with a little margin. Think that will be perfect. And some extra structure to stiffen everything up.
Hard to explain what I mean but I got a mental image of it all...
I will be buying some of that and welding a support post between the base and the main beam, those metal bands I don't give much for whatever support they are supposed add.... And I will weld more square tubing at a 90 degree angle on the sides of the base to build new mount points for the extended feet. That will create a space of 85cm between the feet, so a eur-pallet will fit with a little margin. Think that will be perfect. And some extra structure to stiffen everything up.
Hard to explain what I mean but I got a mental image of it all...
DennisCA
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Started on the modification of the crane. It had to come apart again for this. Here I have two 70x70x4mm pieces cut to length, these will be welded on where they sit now.
Then similar U-profiles will be welded on to these new pieces, in the same fasion that the angled supports are now made. Then I will cut two shorter bits of the same square profile and weld them between the angled and straight U-profiles. You can see there is a cross-member between the two angled U-profiles in the photo, to which the main post and crane is attached later. I will weld the new cross-members along the same line to stiffen up the base frame.
Problem, don't ghot any U-profile and couldn't find any suitable so I plan to make my own from these 6mm plate steel (1/4")
And and cut the pieces to size. I will get 6 pieces of 315x80mm plates out of this.
Not the easiest thing to cut straight with the angle grinder.
Rough mockup of how I imagine it, will add some sheet metal for shims when I do the actual welding.
I wasn't sure if I should go with TIG or stick here but I started out with TIG and thought it was too slow. So I finished the thing with 7018. I got one profile done and I am calling that done for today, I am letting it cool in the jig before removing it. All the daylight is gone now (16:00) anyway, started darkening since 14:00 but the last half hour the sunlight went fast.
EDIT:
Actually, I might need to reconsider how I strengthen up the frame, might need to weld a "lid" on the inner u-profiles anyway or that might be a structural weak point. I don't think that will matter that much since I think the legs would be almost permanently installed in the outer supports.
Then similar U-profiles will be welded on to these new pieces, in the same fasion that the angled supports are now made. Then I will cut two shorter bits of the same square profile and weld them between the angled and straight U-profiles. You can see there is a cross-member between the two angled U-profiles in the photo, to which the main post and crane is attached later. I will weld the new cross-members along the same line to stiffen up the base frame.
Problem, don't ghot any U-profile and couldn't find any suitable so I plan to make my own from these 6mm plate steel (1/4")
And and cut the pieces to size. I will get 6 pieces of 315x80mm plates out of this.
Not the easiest thing to cut straight with the angle grinder.
Rough mockup of how I imagine it, will add some sheet metal for shims when I do the actual welding.
I wasn't sure if I should go with TIG or stick here but I started out with TIG and thought it was too slow. So I finished the thing with 7018. I got one profile done and I am calling that done for today, I am letting it cool in the jig before removing it. All the daylight is gone now (16:00) anyway, started darkening since 14:00 but the last half hour the sunlight went fast.
EDIT:
Actually, I might need to reconsider how I strengthen up the frame, might need to weld a "lid" on the inner u-profiles anyway or that might be a structural weak point. I don't think that will matter that much since I think the legs would be almost permanently installed in the outer supports.
Last edited:
DennisCA
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Today I used the crane I built and got the mill off the pallet.
I first lifted it both at the front and back so I could drag out the pallet, no pictures of that....
I lifted the mill as little as possible, a millimeter clearance perhaps. I pulled the pallet halfway out, stacked up a bunch of boards at the front and lowered it onto that. Then I lifted only the rear of the mill and removed the pallet completely, and put some boards there... Then it was lift at the front, remove board, lower, then lift the back, remove board, lower down. And keep on doing that until it was on the floor.
I could perhaps have just removed the pallet and lowered it to the floor at once but I felt this was safer. It's a lot scarier than you think to lift a machine like this for the first time, I got a real adrenaline rush from it. It's damn scary actually.
I first lifted it both at the front and back so I could drag out the pallet, no pictures of that....
I lifted the mill as little as possible, a millimeter clearance perhaps. I pulled the pallet halfway out, stacked up a bunch of boards at the front and lowered it onto that. Then I lifted only the rear of the mill and removed the pallet completely, and put some boards there... Then it was lift at the front, remove board, lower, then lift the back, remove board, lower down. And keep on doing that until it was on the floor.
I could perhaps have just removed the pallet and lowered it to the floor at once but I felt this was safer. It's a lot scarier than you think to lift a machine like this for the first time, I got a real adrenaline rush from it. It's damn scary actually.
DennisCA
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I moved the mill around a bit amore so I could get the vertical table off.
Some help from the crane is handy
Years of grease and filth...
Pushing in some oil to see where it comes out, brought some grease along with it. I also note that the scraped surface is more worn towards trhe edges, in the middle it is more intact.
Oil distribution channel is filled with caked in grease
After some cleaning. Wear pattern seems to be more worn towards edges.
Also removed the gib for the Z-axis finally.
Worn more towards the ends, center is least worn.
And here's the galling damage on the vertical table
Next step is to lift the vertical table on the work bench and begin the cleaning process and repair the galling damage.
Some help from the crane is handy
Years of grease and filth...
Pushing in some oil to see where it comes out, brought some grease along with it. I also note that the scraped surface is more worn towards trhe edges, in the middle it is more intact.
Oil distribution channel is filled with caked in grease
After some cleaning. Wear pattern seems to be more worn towards edges.
Also removed the gib for the Z-axis finally.
Worn more towards the ends, center is least worn.
And here's the galling damage on the vertical table
Next step is to lift the vertical table on the work bench and begin the cleaning process and repair the galling damage.
