6010 electrodes, worth trying out?

[Bill Edwards]

creepy i was looking at 6013 2 minutes ago then this pops up lol, in your opinion what would be better for all round work and practising.
sif 6013 or 7018.
tia dave

Generally people would use 6013 to begin with, 7018 I actually find easier in some ways as you don't get the wormholes and slag traps if something isn't quite right. But they're a lot harder to restart. Stronger weld metal which makes it my choice for anything where strength is required (such as welding loader brackets, lifting/pulling gear, anything structural etc).

What kind of welder do you have? 7018 needs DC or high voltage AC. Simply put that means an inverter or oil cooled welder will run them, a buzzbox won't.


I can't recall trying SIF rods but they'd not be my first choice, I would go with a brand which will consistently give high quality rods (even more important when practicing). Good brands are those such as Pheonix, Murex, Bohler, ESAB, GYS, Comet etc.

 

[davidjohnperry]

Are comets still around @Bill Edwards

 

[Bill Edwards]

Are comets still around @Bill Edwards

Not actually sure as I've yet to go purchase some - I have a big slab or two that came as a job lot.

 

[davidjohnperry]

nice the information I have is they still exists only under a different brand selecto or something like that i use bohler spezials 7016 close to the comet feel not saying they are as good just nice running rod like the comets

 

[Cobbler]

Just read your post about 7018's Bill, I've been wondering trying them out as I've got a small inverter, but don't you have to use them warm & keep them sealed up or something, or is this only for high strength work, not bits & pieces. I've got some repair work for my son to do & this will all be at funny angles & the chance of less slag entrapment sounds interesting.

Also some of the web sites offer 7018M I think it is, but I can't find out what the M stands for or what the difference is. I know this has been asked before, but don't think it was was answered

EDIT Is it moisture resistant? If so do you treat them the same as 6013's

 

[davidjohnperry]

I have the info at home and can't remember off the top of my head all 7018s are vac sealed to keep moister out. For stuff that's not critical like structural or life depended ill use them opened out the box just off the rad in home but if its critical id bake them for x amount of time at x amount of hear required. Id also not use them for tacking whilst writing this I think the m stands for having iron powder in the flux for faster recovery laying welds I might be wrong tho

 

[Cobbler]

That makes sense David, thanks for that. I'll have to see if I can scrounge a few & try them out to see how I get on.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Just read your post about 7018's Bill, I've been wondering trying them out as I've got a small inverter, but don't you have to use them warm & keep them sealed up or something, or is this only for high strength work, not bits & pieces. I've got some repair work for my son to do & this will all be at funny angles & the chance of less slag entrapment sounds interesting.

Also some of the web sites offer 7018M I think it is, but I can't find out what the M stands for or what the difference is. I know this has been asked before, but don't think it was was answered

EDIT Is it moisture resistant? If so do you treat them the same as 6013's

They are quite moisture sensitive, though bear in mind that although they'll 'work' 6013 need to be kept dry too or they become horrible to weld with.
7018's are often supposed to be baked out of the packet (think it's 150 degrees for one hour) then kept in a heated quiver. Or there are vac packs available which are (usually smaller) packs already dried and completely sealed. The pack normally says they need rebaking if they've been open for longer than 12 hours.
However, that's all for critical work.
I have some in vac pacs for very important jobs but most of the time I use them straight out an airtight rod storage canister which gets filled when I open a fresh packet, also I have some already opened vac pacs which are now considered 'ordinary' out of a packet rather than dry. They still weld adequately but what it comes down to is that they're no longer low hydrogen, though you still get a stronger weld metal and I understand that most of the hydrogen diffuses anyway over time.

Not sure what the M is for, and sadly the resident expert on this left the forum recently.


As to slag traps it's not difficult, particularly on fillets, to get slag trapped instead of weld metal leaving weld on just one side of the joint. That reason saw me switch to 7018 for most of my work as I generally find them easier to use with regards to getting metal where I want them. Vertical I don't really care what I use, I find that quite easy.
To be fair to 6013's though, having a good quality rod can make all the difference. I got hold of some Pheonix rods a while back and that sort of helped me get into using them now as it makes quite a difference but there are still plenty of times when it's 7018's please. Or 7016 which are actually nicer on fillets as they have a thinner flux coating so get into tight spaces easier.

 

[Cobbler]

Thanks for the reply Bill, as I said I will have to see if I can get a few to try. I've done very little arc for years as generally bits & pieces I need to do is 'mig thickness' I bought an inverter on a whim to do a couple of jobs (read toy to play with) & most of my rods are donkeys years old, kept sealed & dry with a desiccant pack, still seem good though. I must say, the modern inverters are a lot nicer to use than the old buzz box, I don't think it will last as long though.

 

[leadpig]

Generally people would use 6013 to begin with, 7018 I actually find easier in some ways as you don't get the wormholes and slag traps if something isn't quite right. But they're a lot harder to restart. Stronger weld metal which makes it my choice for anything where strength is required (such as welding loader brackets, lifting/pulling gear, anything structural etc).

What kind of welder do you have? 7018 needs DC or high voltage AC. Simply put that means an inverter or oil cooled welder will run them, a buzzbox won't.


I can't recall trying SIF rods but they'd not be my first choice, I would go with a brand which will consistently give high quality rods (even more important when practicing). Good brands are those such as Pheonix, Murex, Bohler, ESAB, GYS, Comet etc.

rtech 180mig and dc160 tig

 

[Bill Edwards]

rtech 180mig and dc160 tig

Yup you can run 7018's off the TIG, if the MIG has a stick facility I believe that should be DC too. So you're spoilt for choice as to what rods you can use!


Inverter welders are generally considered very good to use and a big step up from the buzzboxes and perhaps a little higher than oil cooled.
Not so tolerant of being dropped, run off long mains cables with bad voltage drop or dirty generator outputs.
Personally I'm usually happy welding with just about anything (except two car batteries coupled together perhaps). There's no doubt that even the buzzbox machines are capable of producing a sound weld.

 

[Bill Edwards]

You'd expect better of something with Lincoln on, though I've some of their cellulose rods and feel that they're not the best.
Cheap rods are an interesting one. You are buying whatever was cheapest at the time that batch was purchased, sometimes this leads to great rods (for very little money) other times utter junk that'd be overpriced if free.

But what can make them really bad is that if you get an unlucky mixture every rod you pull out of the pack may vary, but of course you don't know what settings it wants until it's lit. With some rods I have found that their characteristics can change midway through the rod as well! Nasty.
Unpleasant for an experienced welder and a real kick to someone getting to grips with the basics.

A few more pounds per box ensures that you're getting something that is consistently good and even though I'm a tight Yorkshireman it's not all the much extra money and well worth it. In reality a box of decent rods is not expensive and provided they're stored properly will last the average hobbiest a good length of time.

 

[leadpig]

Yup you can run 7018's off the TIG, if the MIG has a stick facility I believe that should be DC too. So you're spoilt for choice as to what rods you can use!


Inverter welders are generally considered very good to use and a big step up from the buzzboxes and perhaps a little higher than oil cooled.
Not so tolerant of being dropped, run off long mains cables with bad voltage drop or dirty generator outputs.
Personally I'm usually happy welding with just about anything (except two car batteries coupled together perhaps). There's no doubt that even the buzzbox machines are capable of producing a sound weld.

thank you

 

[HughF]

Comet 7016 is my go-to rod, @davidjohnperry I'll bring a few cartons with me when I come round later this month.

 

[davidjohnperry]

cheers for that @HughF look forward to that matey

 

[zeppelin builder]

View attachment 99783
One word...useless

try them on DC electrode negative

 

[zeppelin builder]

were they made in mc clarens bakery then

 

[HughF]

There's some real junk out there, no amount of arc force or rod angle will get them running right.