Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[DAPPH]

Ha ha I'm about to take possession of a brand new Electric motability car that can hold my electric wheelchair .... a Citroen Berlingo . does about 230 miles per charge in warm weather .

Had to wait three months for the electric adjustable drivers seat to be made and fitted.
This paying to charge , on my wife's Outlander when we got it in 2015 charging was free for a year , five years ago only one or two companies seemed to be doing charging now there are dozens , each will need an app for their services , soon like the connector cables it will be a single thing . easy to make payment from a bank charge or credit card .

Plan for your first few journeys well and get the apps for each charge point for the way there & back . It's just like the early motoring day in hte 1890's filling points were few and far between and not all were the same .

I mean it’s not like anything like that could happen to existing vehicles…

Catalytic converter theft - how to protect yours | RAC Drive

As catalytic converter theft rises across the UK, find out what steps you can take to protect your car and stop thieves from targeting your vehicle.

www.rac.co.uk

Apparently there is roughly £22 of copper in a 7 mtr charging lead , running off with five ,six , seven or nine metres of chopped cable is a bit of a giveaway . Most of the weight of the cable is layers of insulation .

Scrappies are a lot more wary of where cable comes from as every seller is supposed to be registered and only paid via a bank account. Our local scrappie is bank transfer payments only ( far less armed bandit hold up's for a days cash too ) when
Due to these changes in the law ( 6 or so years ago in Wales ) scrappies are now likely to be held liable for helping thieves if they are caught with loads of unaccounted cable that is not easily traced . The environmental people EA also have a great input due to control of waste materials .

I broached to subject of stolen or chopped cables with the motability people as they handle the insurance claims initially . It's not a problem we were told ...motability rent out a tremendous amount of electric cars .

 

[DAPPH]

I mean it’s not like anything like that could happen to existing vehicles…

Catalytic converter theft - how to protect yours | RAC Drive

As catalytic converter theft rises across the UK, find out what steps you can take to protect your car and stop thieves from targeting your vehicle.

www.rac.co.uk

Until the government forced all suppliers of new cars to fit locking wheel studs to at least one on each wheel , wheel thefts were the in thing as a set of mag alloy rims could set you back £ 1500 plus the cost of the tyres .

 

[Robotstar5]

Until the government forced all suppliers of new cars to fit locking wheel studs to at least one on each wheel , wheel thefts were the in thing as a set of mag alloy rims could set you back £ 1500 plus the cost of the tyres .

I was watching the wheel fitting station on the production line, they fit the same keyed nut to each car as it goes through until the box is empty then the key changes with the next box. I thought it a bit odd that consecutive cars had the same key until someone pointed out each car goes to a different dealer/country.

 

[RonMig]

At this point I've only read up to page 4, #80... (getting bored of the arguments, civil-enough as they are).

Retired, my longest normal round-trip in one day is 40 miles, once a week.
Maybe every 3 months, I "might" do a 120 mile day.
Other more normal days its 15 mile round trips, couple of times a week.
None of the destinations are public transport friendly.

Not short of a bob or two but at 67, I just can't bring myself to be overly spendy on cars - my diesel 4x4 (love it) cost £2k in 2018 and maintenance over 5 years has been less than £3k, so that's where I'm in my ££££budget comfort zone.

I think an EV would suit most of my trips; would just come down to finding an EV for about £2k.
I like the look of the Renault Zoe but the cheapest one on autotrader is £3k , 300 miles away, and doesn't work
and not too keen on "renting" the battery, either.

Might have to wait 10 or 15 years before availability is so widespread that the prices come down to my level.
But by that time I will be over 80, so seems less likely for me.

So I may as well enjoy my 4x4 mud-plugging go-anywhere gas-guzzler and forget EVs

 

[pedrobedro]

Fit a towbar and pull a big diesel generator everywhere, plug it in and charge as you drive.

 

[Robotstar5]

Fit a towbar and pull a big diesel generator everywhere, plug it in and charge as you drive.

And if you hooked a fuel bowser to the back of the generator you would have a phenomenal range.

 

[fizzy]

Ha ha I'm about to take possession of a brand new Electric motability car that can hold my electric wheelchair .... a Citroen Berlingo . does about 230 miles per charge in warm weather .

Had to wait three months for the electric adjustable drivers seat to be made and fitted.
This paying to charge , on my wife's Outlander when we got it in 2015 charging was free for a year , five years ago only one or two companies seemed to be doing charging now there are dozens , each will need an app for their services , soon like the connector cables it will be a single thing . easy to make payment from a bank charge or credit card .

Plan for your first few journeys well and get the apps for each charge point for the way there & back . It's just like the early motoring day in hte 1890's filling points were few and far between and not all were the same .

Apparently there is roughly £22 of copper in a 7 mtr charging lead , running off with five ,six , seven or nine metres of chopped cable is a bit of a giveaway . Most of the weight of the cable is layers of insulation .

Scrappies are a lot more wary of where cable comes from as every seller is supposed to be registered and only paid via a bank account. Our local scrappie is bank transfer payments only ( far less armed bandit hold up's for a days cash too ) when
Due to these changes in the law ( 6 or so years ago in Wales ) scrappies are now likely to be held liable for helping thieves if they are caught with loads of unaccounted cable that is not easily traced . The environmental people EA also have a great input due to control of waste materials .

I broached to subject of stolen or chopped cables with the motability people as they handle the insurance claims initially . It's not a problem we were told ...motability rent out a tremendous amount of electric cars .

Environmental laws don't seem to apply to a certain site near Swansea. Many nights I see a large plume of smoke in the air along with a strong smell of burning plastic. Strangely the Police and the Environment Agency seem to be deterred by a large number of caravans. Copper prices still high obviously!

 

[bricol]

Of course a big car would likely come off better? That’s simple physics. Im sure there are tests done to show this, but even if not then it stands to reason. All other things being equal a bigger crumple zone, more mass etc should make for a more survivable vehicle. But then cars are a compromise and not everyone wants, needs or can afford a large 4x4.

It’s about doing the best with what you have. What is interesting is that a well designed small modern car is shown to be significantly improved over a larger but older vehicle.

Yep - Americans like to thing a big two tonne Caddy from the 50's/60's would be the thing to be in . . there's a video out there of a good one being slammed into a much more modern car - Chevy Cruz or similar if I remember. The modern car allowed the occupants to open doors and get out . . . the Caddy driver would have needed a paint scraper to remove them from the rear bulkhead.

So considering an older car is now more fatigued, more corroded, less well designed in the first place . . . I'm much rather be in the modern car . . . as an owner of several older cars. And a Caterham .. . when even a bloke on a push bike is going to do me some serious damage . . .

 

[bricol]

Saw on facebook this morning on some USA wheeling page, a lot of laughs about a Rivian electric truck being towed out of Moab . . . usual anti-EV stuff.

Some sanity posts about there are many many more ICE Jeeps towed out, many other vehicles not suited for the terrain they were being thrown at being towed out - it hadn't need to be towed out as it was electric, it needed towing out as it was unsuitable for the terrain.

 

[not done it yet]

True... but I think Fizzy's point was about NCAP being the be-all-&-end-all of how "safe" a particular car is (as a stand-alone yardstick).
The lorry is an analogy (& there is huge diversity of vehicles on the roads).

Let's face it - if we were going to have to have a head-on Country Lane crash at (let's say) a combined speed of 30mph.
One car was a pretty recent VW "Up", the other a 1970's Volvo 240.
Which car would you prefer to be in?
(I'd be in the 240, & to hell with NCAP).

Let me answer some of these posts.

The modern car, with crumple zones and airbags would be my choice. Every time. You cannot choose what you collide with in that situation it could be a lorry or maybe something like my Pogo 106. Body corrosion may also be a factor?

I ask cos I dont know.
I did though recently spend a day working in Cardiff, at a Hospital site (not a main Hospital).
In the car park (which was public access & also was being used as a Covid Vaccination Centre) there were a couple of EV Charge Points..... & the same car was parked & plugged-in all day when I was on-site.

Simple answer is unknown. Although available, those chargers could be delivering only 2.3kW and the vehicle was a pool car, available, as required, by hospital staff. A full charge from a low level could take over a day.

There again it could be someone other than the above. Question: Was the other charger used? Possibly the charging tariff was exorbitant for other users. We don’t know from one single observation.

I'd detest any car that made autonomous actions like lane-changing. Hell I don't even like rain-sensitive Wipers!
I'll trust my own observation, attention & decision-making before any auto-system - because they simply cannot programme in the correct response to every possible scenario or set of circumstances (or won't provide the best system due to saving costs - like Tesla's autopilot systems mowing down motorcycles due to downgrading the system's scanning & recognition capabilities to save money).
NCAP gradings aren't going to influence my vehicle choice one bit.... but if a car has those auto-systems present - it'd dissuade me from considering it.

I don’t/haven’t use/used the lane assist much. Only really useful, for me, on longer journeys on motorways, I suspect.

NCAP results are important! Just need to be clever enough to look at the individual results within the overall grade result. A vehicle with poor crash resistance is easy to spot if one looks more closely at the results

A decade ago my Norwegian boss offshore told me about the 'parking wars' that were going on in Oslo, where people put their EV in a (free) charging station, but left it for hours while they wandered round town. Very common problem even back then, when EVs were a tiny minority.

Maybe a decade ago, but ten years is a long time. BEVs have only been around that long. Few BEVs and likely even fewer charging stations. It is somewhat different now! The most recent problem in the UK was that of charging points being blocked by inconsiderate ICE drivers. Thankfully, that practice has disappeared.

Tech?

My other half didn't know how to turn on the rear fog lights in her Fiesta!

She's an intelligent woman, working in the legal business with many millions of pounds deals, so I was a bit gob-smacked!

It is far worse that people don’t know they are on, don’t know how to switch them off, or don’t know that the law states clearly (somewhere) that they should only be used when visibility is less than 100m. Rear fog light users, used in conditions for which they are not needed, are a PITA and potentially dangerous.

 

[not done it yet]

Yep - Americans like to thing a big two tonne Caddy from the 50's/60's would be the thing to be in . . there's a video out there of a good one being slammed into a much more modern car - Chevy Cruz or similar if I remember. The modern car allowed the occupants to open doors and get out . . . the Caddy driver would have needed a paint scraper to remove them from the rear bulkhead.

So considering an older car is now more fatigued, more corroded, less well designed in the first place . . . I'm much rather be in the modern car . . . as an owner of several older cars. And a Caterham .. . when even a bloke on a push bike is going to do me some serious damage . . .

Yep, you just have to watch a few of the “just rolled in” youtube videos to understand the state of some vehicles running on US roads. Thankfully, a lot of the vehicles shown in those clips would never see the light of day on a UK road.

 

[rtcosic]

At this point I've only read up to page 4, #80... (getting bored of the arguments, civil-enough as they are).

Retired, my longest normal round-trip in one day is 40 miles, once a week.
Maybe every 3 months, I "might" do a 120 mile day.
Other more normal days its 15 mile round trips, couple of times a week.
None of the destinations are public transport friendly.

Not short of a bob or two but at 67, I just can't bring myself to be overly spendy on cars - my diesel 4x4 (love it) cost £2k in 2018 and maintenance over 5 years has been less than £3k, so that's where I'm in my ££££budget comfort zone.

I think an EV would suit most of my trips; would just come down to finding an EV for about £2k.
I like the look of the Renault Zoe but the cheapest one on autotrader is £3k , 300 miles away, and doesn't work
and not too keen on "renting" the battery, either.

Might have to wait 10 or 15 years before availability is so widespread that the prices come down to my level.
But by that time I will be over 80, so seems less likely for me.

So I may as well enjoy my 4x4 mud-plugging go-anywhere gas-guzzler and forget EVs

Snap! Almost identical circumstances. In addition on the longer trips I know I can recharge at the destination, even if it's only at 3kW.

I'm running a 5 year petrol with 35k so my BEV will probably be one of these:

I expect I'll be asking offspring to defeat the 8mph limiter.

 

[Erie Fred]

Brushed stainless bonded to a fibreglass shell if I remember.

It's the stainless part that kicked up the OCD in Shock.

 

[Smallfry]

At this point I've only read up to page 4, #80... (getting bored of the arguments, civil-enough as they are).

Retired, my longest normal round-trip in one day is 40 miles, once a week.
Maybe every 3 months, I "might" do a 120 mile day.
Other more normal days its 15 mile round trips, couple of times a week.
None of the destinations are public transport friendly.

Not short of a bob or two but at 67, I just can't bring myself to be overly spendy on cars - my diesel 4x4 (love it) cost £2k in 2018 and maintenance over 5 years has been less than £3k, so that's where I'm in my ££££budget comfort zone.

I think an EV would suit most of my trips; would just come down to finding an EV for about £2k.
I like the look of the Renault Zoe but the cheapest one on autotrader is £3k , 300 miles away, and doesn't work
and not too keen on "renting" the battery, either.

Might have to wait 10 or 15 years before availability is so widespread that the prices come down to my level.
But by that time I will be over 80, so seems less likely for me.

So I may as well enjoy my 4x4 mud-plugging go-anywhere gas-guzzler and forget EVs

This is it in a nutshell for me.

I don't have anything against EVs per se (apart from the unfair road tax bias) and I don't think they are the answer environmentally, but I only have vans, as they are more use to me, and until they get the range issue sorted, I would not even consider it. I am used to driving up to 400 miles in one hit, and I DON'T want to hang around service stations for hours, and buying unnecessary expensive meals and drinks, and I DON'T want the worry or what repairs or another battery might cost.

More importantly, I make no secret of the fact that I cannot afford the money they cost, and at the moment, a used one is very likely to be a can of worms. I have not spent any more than £1500 on buying a vehicle for years, as I view it as a waste of money, but of course, thats my choice. I don't do the politics of envy, or begrudge those who can afford it either.

Until they come down to my price bracket, I will stick to my diesels, as I like them, but the worry with a cheap EV will be how reliable will it be, and what sort of range will it have when the battery is old.

 

[daleyd]

I think it’s fair to say if you need a van to go from one end of the country to the other without stopping - and for £1500 - then an electric car that’s going to be at most a couple of years old probably isn’t for you.

I don’t think anyone would try and argue otherwise.

 

[Morrisman]

Maybe a decade ago, but ten years is a long time. BEVs have only been around that long. Few BEVs and likely even fewer charging stations. It is somewhat different now! The most recent problem in the UK was that of charging points being blocked by inconsiderate ICE drivers. Thankfully, that practice has disappeared.

There are four in Tesco, 2 in Wilko, Asda has none, and I don't think I've seen any anywhere else in our town.

 

[GRW]

Hard to believe that anyone would look at data from road deaths/injuries over the years and suggest that older cars were, size for size, safer than newer ones. Not all the reductions are down to simply better car design of course but I’d wager that a good proportion of that reduction is down to better design, and the addition of modern safety features.

The downside though - is that newer cars are getting written off after pretty minor fender-benders.
(My car is worth so little that given the choice I'd not claim on insurance, but either fix it myself or scrap it - by far the cheaper options.... but to have a tiny bump & have many £k's written off, probably not get what it's worth or what a replacement would cost, get clobbered for sn excess & get a premium hike - would nark me no end).

 

[malcolm]

I quite like electric cars. I used to play with them at work and they tend to be quite funky. Can't afford one. My one gripe is if you were to have one that is 5 or 10 years old the cost of replacing the battery would be more than the car is worth so I'll not be able to afford a used one either.

Range is another issue. I can get to Glasgow and back on a tank of diesel. Driving back from Scotland when it was busy after Christmas I wanted to stop for a pee on the A1 and all the services were backed up onto the slip roads. I couldn't be bothered as it would be half an hour just to get into the services so ended up driving home without stopping. Then rushing to the loo. Imagine if everyone was queuing for a charging point as well as the loo.

There will never be enough services to support that level of traffic if everyone was electric. Long trips at busy times will need to be done by alternative means, and I'm not sure everyone would have fitted on the train either. I think the idea is for us to stay at home and save lives.

Not sure if the Glasgow low emission zone has a classic car exemption. I'm thinking a Renault 4 with a few jerry cans in the back could be a money saver.

 

[premmington]

There’s something like a 75% reduction in fatalities over the last 30 years despite there being more cars on the road (can’t recall the exact figures but something like that…).

But yeah, modern cars are rubbish

YOU are right - the problem with new high value cars is - they are expensive to repair. They just are...

They are not easy to bodge and keep going on the cheap.

 

[roofman]

I quite like electric cars. I used to play with them at work and they tend to be quite funky. Can't afford one. My one gripe is if you were to have one that is 5 or 10 years old the cost of replacing the battery would be more than the car is worth so I'll not be able to afford a used one either.

Range is another issue. I can get to Glasgow and back on a tank of diesel. Driving back from Scotland when it was busy after Christmas I wanted to stop for a pee on the A1 and all the services were backed up onto the slip roads. I couldn't be bothered as it would be half an hour just to get into the services so ended up driving home without stopping. Then rushing to the loo. Imagine if everyone was queuing for a charging point as well as the loo.

There will never be enough services to support that level of traffic if everyone was electric. Long trips at busy times will need to be done by alternative means, and I'm not sure everyone would have fitted on the train either. I think the idea is for us to stay at home and save lives.

Not sure if the Glasgow low emission zone has a classic car exemption. I'm thinking a Renault 4 with a few jerry cans in the back could be a money saver.

Plastic bottle under the driver's seat Malcolm