Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[atomant48]

You could set up a poll to answer your question. It’d be interesting.

 

[GRW]

That's our local council have just tripled the electricity rates on their rapid chargers so the Leaf will be ~16p/mile energy costs charging on them.

The Mini is a little less than that at current petrol rates and the Discovery is a little above that at current diesel rates. The only good thing is that it will stop the local high end EV owners with massive batteries hogging them, it was galling to see locals with £80k motors sitting there when they could/should be charging them at home overnight on their own chargers and leaving the rapids for those who actually need them to use them as journey chargers.

Question. Can/Do EV owners (mis)use charge stations - I.e. use it as an all day Parking Space (plug in & say the car's charged in say 4-hours, but it's there all day while they are in the office)?

 

[atomant48]

Question. Can/Do EV owners (mis)use charge stations - I.e. use it as an all day Parking Space (plug in & say the car's charged in say 4-hours, but it's there all day while they are in the office)?

Tesla have “idle charges” for this very reason - to deter folk from doing this. But etiquette says you don’t do it …. In my offices we have about 10-12 EVs and we are all pretty good at sharing the love.

 

[fizzy]

People shouldn't focus on NCAP too much. A small car with a high rating can be a lot worse against a bigger car with a lower rating. A lorry would get 1 star in the tests but would demolish a small hatchback.

 

[Agrismith]

People shouldn't focus on NCAP too much. A small car with a high rating can be a lot worse against a bigger car with a lower rating. A lorry would get 1 star in the tests but would demolish a small hatchback.

Bit of a funny way of looking at it. Yes a lorry would crumple a small car but lorry v lorry is a hell of a mess. So if we all drove lorries noone would end up a any safer

 

[knighty]

For those wondering why EV's have such high power motors, it's all to do with getting enough torque to get them moving.
ICE vehicles have the benefit of multiple gears. EV vehicles only have a fixed gear.
You don't get 200hp from a 200hp motor at low RPM.

You could build an EV with a 50hp motor, but you'll either have to gear it so it can pull away on steep slopes with limited top speed, gear it for more top speed but not be able to get it moving on a slope, or fit a gearbox. However from a cost/reliability perspective, it's cheaper and more reliable to fit a bigger motor, than add the cost and complexity of a multi-speed gearbox.

I thought electric motors have maximum torque at low revs not high revs? (from a standing start)

 

[Seadog]

Series wound has maximum torque from zero. The old tube trains had mechanical selectors that slowly changed the motor configuration as speed was gathered, until they had a compound arrangement ( both series and parallel field windings) . That's what the tick-tick from a seat near you was all about

 

[willie.macleod]

Question. Can/Do EV owners (mis)use charge stations - I.e. use it as an all day Parking Space (plug in & say the car's charged in say 4-hours, but it's there all day while they are in the office)?

They started the overstay charges on the rapids here a few months ago but other than that paying for parking isn't really a thing here (we do have some pay&display but enough free options to easily avoid) so no real benefit for drivers leaving cars on the chargers.

 

[GRW]

Bit of a funny way of looking at it. Yes a lorry would crumple a small car but lorry v lorry is a hell of a mess. So if we all drove lorries noone would end up a any safer

True... but I think Fizzy's point was about NCAP being the be-all-&-end-all of how "safe" a particular car is (as a stand-alone yardstick).
The lorry is an analogy (& there is huge diversity of vehicles on the roads).

Let's face it - if we were going to have to have a head-on Country Lane crash at (let's say) a combined speed of 30mph.
One car was a pretty recent VW "Up", the other a 1970's Volvo 240.
Which car would you prefer to be in?
(I'd be in the 240, & to hell with NCAP).

 

[not done it yet]

People shouldn't focus on NCAP too much. A small car with a high rating can be a lot worse against a bigger car with a lower rating. A lorry would get 1 star in the tests but would demolish a small hatchback.

NCAP give more points for driver aids than ever. Some vehicles are just as safe in a collision as some others but their rating is down-graded if things like lane assist and auto lane changing are not included.

I know we are all safety-obsessed now (well OK, it seems overall we are to a far, far greater degree than ever).... so I'm genuinely interested - how many on here buy a car, where their primary purchasing devision is on the safety features?

I have chosen vehicles with safety considerations for in excess of the last 45 years. Before that it was maximum speed (with safety considerations such as uprated suspension, brakes, tyres, etc).

Probably less safety-first since the children decamped, a divorce and funds meant, at times, cheaper vehicles were adopted. I still have my 27 year old pogo 106 (no air bags or ABS, but diesel - so less fire risk) but the 607 has gone.

That was the third 607 - my wife did a lot of miles in those and needed a lot of space in the car. The first was totalled when she was pushed into the central reservation armco at nearly 70mph and walked away after a 540 spin. She then insisted on another two versions of the same model because of the safety (and comfort).

The electric motors are designed for high torque at low speed. Power is torque multiplied by rotational speed. As speed increases, torque decreases. It is torque that creates/allows acceleration. As I stated earlier, horse power of ICE vehicles and EVs are not comparable.

I did quote an example earlier (the Nissan Leaf). The motor is spinning at around 12000rpm, at top speed, with no means of using extra gears like an ICE car.

 

[GRW]

They started the overstay charges on the rapids here a few months ago but other than that paying for parking isn't really a thing here (we do have some pay&display but enough free options to easily avoid) so no real benefit for drivers leaving cars on the chargers.

I ask cos I dont know.
I did though recently spend a day working in Cardiff, at a Hospital site (not a main Hospital).
In the car park (which was public access & also was being used as a Covid Vaccination Centre) there were a couple of EV Charge Points..... & the same car was parked & plugged-in all day when I was on-site.

 

[GRW]

NCAP give more points for driver aids than ever. Some vehicles are just as safe in a collision as some others but their rating is down-graded if things like lane assist and auto lane changing are not included.

I'd detest any car that made autonomous actions like lane-changing. Hell I don't even like rain-sensitive Wipers!
I'll trust my own observation, attention & decision-making before any auto-system - because they simply cannot programme in the correct response to every possible scenario or set of circumstances (or won't provide the best system due to saving costs - like Tesla's autopilot systems mowing down motorcycles due to downgrading the system's scanning & recognition capabilities to save money).
NCAP gradings aren't going to influence my vehicle choice one bit.... but if a car has those auto-systems present - it'd dissuade me from considering it.

 

[m_c]

I thought electric motors have maximum torque at low revs not high revs? (from a standing start)

I've often heard that said, but if you drive a motor correctly, it's not true.
It comes from when motor control was far more crude, and the fact that if you take a motor and apply it's rated voltage while stationary, the lack of back emf from being stationary will result in excess current flowing, and it will produce more than it's rated torque. However if it doesn't start spinning, and there is nothing to limit/stop the current, then it's essentially a large induction heater and will quite quickly start smouldering.

Generally electric motors have constant torque from zero to rated RPM, if driven how they should be.
There are a few that will produce next to nothing at standstill, but I can't think of any that produce more.
Off course motors can be overdriven for short period of times, but motor temperature has to be monitored to avoid motor damage (or the motor characteristics accurately known, so temperature can be calculated from how much power is applied - this is the approach many servo motors/drives take)

 

[Morrisman]

Question. Can/Do EV owners (mis)use charge stations - I.e. use it as an all day Parking Space (plug in & say the car's charged in say 4-hours, but it's there all day while they are in the office)?

A decade ago my Norwegian boss offshore told me about the 'parking wars' that were going on in Oslo, where people put their EV in a (free) charging station, but left it for hours while they wandered round town. Very common problem even back then, when EVs were a tiny minority.

 

[GRW]

A decade ago my Norwegian boss offshore told me about the 'parking wars' that were going on in Oslo, where people put their EV in a (free) charging station, but left it for hours while they wandered round town. Very common problem even back then, when EVs were a tiny minority.

I'm not surprised. People are more selfish, & less concerned about being considerate than in the past, & the "FU, I'm alright" attitude prevails a lot more.

If there's no penalty or monetary charge for "charger hogging" then I would expect it to be a thing because of how people are.

These days some people will "hog" a petrol pump & blithely let others wait while they browse for ages in the shop, chat etc. when they are a few feet away - so when a car needs hours, not minutes.....

 

[northwest]

Using words like “milk float” and throwing out the same old stereotypes doesn’t really add much

I don't know, Milk Floats are great, I learned to drive in one and my mother (still driving at 94) passed her test on one.

Don't worry, duty on EV charging will happen at some stage. They will dye the electrons red so they can tell if you have sneakily charged your car from an unmanaged car charge point

Many a true word spoken in jest. The moment they crack cordless charging it's all over.

 

[daleyd]

 

[bricol]

These days some people will "hog" a petrol pump & blithely let others wait while they browse for ages in the shop, chat etc. when they are a few feet away - so when a car needs hours, not minutes.....

Well, other than the fact that when I used to work in a petrol station, you drive away from the pump without first paying, I'm on the blower to report a drive off!

The problem is petrol stations becomign a shop, not people "hogging" a pump

 

[bricol]

My Sd1 saved me at 75mph off the M4. 30 foot embankment. No crash barrier. Worse thing was the nosedive into a concrete drainage ditch. Then flipped upside down. Car crumpled perfectly. Roof held. Central door locking released. Fuel pump shut off. Worse than Princess Diana's crash as I stopped from 75 to 0 in a fraction of a second.
Very very lucky. Straight 6 engine and a big gearbox connected to the back axle stopped the engine ending up in our laps.
Don't think many modern cars would survive so well except perhaps a Range Rover.

You were wearing a seatbelt - the only person to survive her crash was the bodyguard in the front passenger seat - the one closest to the pillar it hit . . and he was wearing a seatbelt. The passenger compartment of that Merc was pretty much intact - as an advert for the strength of the thing, it was pretty impressive.

I'm still surprised no-one ever made a thing of it.

 

[bricol]

More to the point how much tech in a modern car do the owners even know about let alone know how to use it . Bit like white goods with 20 options only 2 of which are used. Tech is there to either cheapen the manufacturing costs or hook the gullible .

Tech?

My other half didn't know how to turn on the rear fog lights in her Fiesta!

She's an intelligent woman, working in the legal business with many millions of pounds deals, so I was a bit gob-smacked!