Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[DanZac]

Smaller EVs which are more efficient would be the answer for commuting rather than PHEVs but then you have the vast majority of the public who perceive they "need" a vehicle that can do 300+ miles before recharging.

That is the most sensible thing in the entire thread. If we just used the right technology for the job we probably wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

The average car journey in 2019 was 8.4 miles according to the national travel survey, which means there's not many trips that need a 300 mile range.

The question we all need to be asking ourselves is "Do you really need a 3L diesel SUV to drop the kids off to school / go to Tesco, or would a small battery EV suffice"?

I'll grant you that there will always be people that need bigger cars, vans, trucks etc, but if we got the people that don't need a behemoth into the right car then that wouldn't be such an issue.

Unfortunately though, all the time the car is seen as a status symbol / luxury item, then thats not going to happen.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906276/national-travel-survey-2019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi45qSm87L_AhW6SkEAHb-qD9AQFnoECBEQBg&usg=AOvVaw2HwxV8X8dtPHcK7y_iGsDT

 

[redlig]

It might be that our conventional thinking of an engine or motor powered vehicle on wheels is going the way of the dinosaurs . Using battery & infra red power to push out a stream of ionized electrons might end up propelling / floating on an electron cushion vehicles able to not need hard surface s to travel over .

Was that a flying pig I just saw? Perhaps we will all sit at home wearing virtual glasses and just 'experience' travel and all that goes with it .

 

[redlig]

Yes we seem to be able to cock up road design over and over. I was up in North Wales last week, the idiots have planted trees allong theAberystwyth to Newtown mountain road - right down tothe roadside....

Recycling at it's best. They were the trees removed from another roadside because they constituted a danger and it looked good on the books to have recycled them for the greens.

 

[dobbslc]

or you could try and use coal for making gas.....as shown in this blue peter job

Wow that brings back memories! Is that a convertible Capri???
That gas generator in the back helps both the environment and stops the driver getting a speeding ticket by obscuring the number plate and I now know where James May got his hairstyle from.

 

[minimutly]

That is the most sensible thing in the entire thread. If we just used the right technology for the job we probably wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

The average car journey in 2019 was 8.4 miles according to the national travel survey, which means there's not many trips that need a 300 mile range.

The question we all need to be asking ourselves is "Do you really need a 3L diesel SUV to drop the kids off to school / go to Tesco, or would a small battery EV suffice"?

I'll grant you that there will always be people that need bigger cars, vans, trucks etc, but if we got the people that don't need a behemoth into the right car then that wouldn't be such an issue.

Unfortunately though, all the time the car is seen as a status symbol / luxury item, then thats not going to happen.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906276/national-travel-survey-2019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi45qSm87L_AhW6SkEAHb-qD9AQFnoECBEQBg&usg=AOvVaw2HwxV8X8dtPHcK7y_iGsDT

Whilst this post is sensible and easy to agree with, the issue is that even small EVs are not cheap. Make a cheap one and I’m sure it will sell in its millions. That still leaves a need for a comfortable mile muncher though - so you need two cars...

 

[not done it yet]

Agreed that the largest of the EVs is not needed for the average user. I test-drove a smaller car that would have provided better range, and considerably better fuel economy, than the one I purchased.

While the smaller car would have been adequate for the two of us, I did not want a car with little/no option of using the rear seats - as they need to be folded down, out of use, in order to load the electric wheelchair that my wife requires (she is unable to propel a wheelchair and I can no longer push her very far in one).

I would have preferred the smaller model but needs must….

 

[minimutly]

Agreed that the largest of the EVs is not needed for the average user. I test-drove a smaller car that would have provided better range, and considerably better fuel economy, than the one I purchased.

While the smaller car would have been adequate for the two of us, I did not want a car with little/no option of using the rear seats - as they need to be folded down, out of use, in order to load the electric wheelchair that my wife requires (she is unable to propel a wheelchair and I can no longer push her very far in one).

I would have preferred the smaller model but needs must….

And what price was the small 2 seater?

 

[not done it yet]

And what price was the small 2 seater?

It wasn’t a two seater. It was a 5 seater. It was considerably less than the model I bought, but that is immaterial, really. I needed the larger carrying capacity.

 

[DanZac]

Whilst this post is sensible and easy to agree with, the issue is that even small EVs are not cheap. Make a cheap one and I’m sure it will sell in its millions. That still leaves a need for a comfortable mile muncher though - so you need two cars...

As an honest question and maybe slightly off topic but how many of us make these long journeys on a regular basis that require a "comfortable mile muncher"?

Personally speaking in a previous job I was on the road every day, covering a wide area but still only averaged around 20K miles a year (59 per day average).

Now I commute to work by bike (22 miles a day) and average 5-6K miles a year driving, most of which is made up of short shopping runs and longer weekend trips in my camper van, most of which are still within a 100 mile range of home.

I've 2 sisters that never go more than 50 miles from home (and that's unusual) and of the 5 people currently in the office with me today one commutes 60 miles twice a week, and that's about their longest journey, and the others rarely venture far from home.

I'll grant you we all do the odd long trip for holidays etc, but that's not an every day occurance. So do we really all need a "mile eater" or could the 90% of the population that only do the occasional long trip actually manage with a smaller, more efficient car (not necessarily an EV, but a smaller vehicle)?

Which takes me back to the point that the car is a status symbol, with a big car being a show off point and not a necessity, and until that changes we'll just go round in circles.

 

[Robotstar5]

<snip>

I'll grant you we all do the odd long trip for holidays etc, but that's not an every day occurance. So do we really all need a "mile eater" or could the 90% of the population that only do the occasional long trip actually manage with a smaller, more efficient car (not necessarily an EV, but a smaller vehicle)?

I'm wondering whether it's worth going EV as most of our use is about a 5 mile radius with a few trips up to 50 mile when I go to vintage shows, the problem is our annual holiday is a 250 - 270 mile run so maybe hire a "mile muncher" for a week?

 

[500e]

Saw a pedal powered electric 4 wheel van yesterday, no battery, went up a hill no bother, single seat.

 

[bricol]

Got to be careful with the "who needs a big car" type questions . . .

Who needs more than a 2 up, 2 down house?
Who needs a garden?
A workshop?
A welder?
Any power tool at all?

Who needs kids?

Children are the ones who are really going to use the worlds resources in the future. Stop producing more children!

Slightly more seriously - that is part of the reason that, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't assisted in the production of any

 

[DanZac]

I'm wondering whether it's worth going EV as most of our use is about a 5 mile radius with a few trips up to 50 mile when I go to vintage shows, the problem is our annual holiday is a 250 - 270 mile run so maybe hire a "mile muncher" for a week?

And that was the point I was trying to make, it's having the right tool for the job you do 99% of the time, and finding an alternative for the other 1%. And in many cases I suspect that an EV, even with the current charging situation would fill that criteria.

I needed a van a few weeks ago to move a bathroom suite. I didn't buy one to run around empty in for the one occasion a year that I need it, and I didn't sit here moaning that my 206 was rubbish because I couldn't get a bath in it. I hired a van for the day, and if I needed to travel a long way once a year then it would probably be more efficient to hire a car for that journey.

I'm not saying that EV is without problems and there are certainly issues to overcome and address, but that will happen as time goes by.

I'll bet that in 1900 there were people saying I'll not swap my horse for one of those stupid ICE powered cars. They can't go through a muddy field, and where do you get this petrol stuff from anyway?

Likewise I'll wager that there's not many on here that would want to swap back to using a Yankee screwdriver and hand drill instead of their battery powered unit.

The first battery screwdriver I had was utter rubbish though. Battery tech moved on, as it will for cars and vans etc and before long we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.

 

[cheb]

You don't need to go that far back. Before diesel was fahionable the naysayers droned about it waxing in the winter and the engines needed servicing more often and and and.

 

[atomant48]

That is the most sensible thing in the entire thread. If we just used the right technology for the job we probably wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

The average car journey in 2019 was 8.4 miles according to the national travel survey, which means there's not many trips that need a 300 mile range.

The question we all need to be asking ourselves is "Do you really need a 3L diesel SUV to drop the kids off to school / go to Tesco, or would a small battery EV suffice"?

I'll grant you that there will always be people that need bigger cars, vans, trucks etc, but if we got the people that don't need a behemoth into the right car then that wouldn't be such an issue.

Unfortunately though, all the time the car is seen as a status symbol / luxury item, then thats not going to happen.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/906276/national-travel-survey-2019.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi45qSm87L_AhW6SkEAHb-qD9AQFnoECBEQBg&usg=AOvVaw2HwxV8X8dtPHcK7y_iGsDT

That’s kind of our model - we have a 7 seat Volvo which I’ll make no apologies for (more in a minute) and an EV which we try to use as much as possible. As had been said a few times on here at the moments there significant tax benefits to EVs and that was a significant reason why I got one. But certainly not the only or main reason, and that has been debated to death (then revived then to death again) on here already.

Back to the Volvo I will throw something in. With 3 young kids (no idea if that’s an average family or not these days - I’m sure someone will google it) there are very few cars that will take 3 car seats across the back. Many folk may not agree with this…. But i speak from experience

So there is a chance that many of the “big SUVs” you see about are in fact there by need.

 

[willie.macleod]

Who needs kids?

Children are the ones who are really going to use the worlds resources in the future. Stop producing more children!

Slightly more seriously - that is part of the reason that, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't assisted in the production of any

Well, the whole thing falls apart if everyone takes that view. We need a next generation, and we need them to improve on what we and what our forbearers did. Don't need to go backwards, but we will if we don't have enough of an intelligent population to sustain improvements. I understand not everyone can/wants to have kids, but someone has to wipe your bum and pay the pension bill when you are no longer able. We all have a responsibility to teach the next generation, when I look back on my upbringing and the folk in my life there were a few older childless couples in the village who were pretty good to us as a family and one in particular who set us up with wee practical jobs where we provided the brawn and they the knowledge. Gave us access to his toolshed and in later years when he lost ability to drive access to his car as well.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Hands up ...my other car is a Hyundai Tucson which is a large ish car. Bought it because I'm well over 6 foot tall and I have a very bad back. It's very handy standing next to the car, sitting on the seat and then doing a spin to get in.

Before I did my back in I used to drive small cars...mr2s, seat Ibiza etc. Those days are long gone for me...if I drove 200 miles in a ford fiesta I'd be done for a few weeks .

 

[not done it yet]

So there is a chance that many of the “big SUVs” you see about are in fact there by need.

You might have got away with that if you had said ”a few” or even “some” but not many.

My son and daughter-in-law have three children The children are now 15, 13 and 12 but all fit in a medium sized saloon for most family journeys. DiL drives a ‘people carrier’ type vehicle because she transports children and kit to all sorts of school, and other, activies. Neither vehicle would be regarded as a status symbol.

My daughter and partner, with one ‘coming-up-to-school-age’ son have a Skoda and a sporty BMW. Neither is a status symbol - the Skoda is used by my daughter - for a lot of business travel - and the BMW was simply a fun car, but now being used for travel to work two days a week - even though he ‘wastes’ a lot of time in the office. Office is 60 miles distant but he has worked from home, for more than 90% of his job, for several years and considers at least one of those days per week less productive than it could be.

I most certainly don’t need a status symbol, at my stage in life, unless anyone regards a 2005 peugeot 607 and a 1996 peugeot 106 ad status symbols. Let‘s face it, most status-symbol vhicles are likely not actually owned by the keeper. The BEV replaced the 607, which was close to the end of its economical life.

 

[Roger440]

And that was the point I was trying to make, it's having the right tool for the job you do 99% of the time, and finding an alternative for the other 1%. And in many cases I suspect that an EV, even with the current charging situation would fill that criteria.

I needed a van a few weeks ago to move a bathroom suite. I didn't buy one to run around empty in for the one occasion a year that I need it, and I didn't sit here moaning that my 206 was rubbish because I couldn't get a bath in it. I hired a van for the day, and if I needed to travel a long way once a year then it would probably be more efficient to hire a car for that journey.

I'm not saying that EV is without problems and there are certainly issues to overcome and address, but that will happen as time goes by.

I'll bet that in 1900 there were people saying I'll not swap my horse for one of those stupid ICE powered cars. They can't go through a muddy field, and where do you get this petrol stuff from anyway?

Likewise I'll wager that there's not many on here that would want to swap back to using a Yankee screwdriver and hand drill instead of their battery powered unit.

The first battery screwdriver I had was utter rubbish though. Battery tech moved on, as it will for cars and vans etc and before long we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.

You obviously say this from the position of charging you car at home. Or being able to if you have an EV.

The argument falls apart at the point you cant charge at home. Then an EV, regardless of size is a massive step backwards. Given thats over half the working population, thats a bit of a problem

That particular problem simply isnt going to get fixed, because, basically it cant be.

When the supply of cheap ICE cars starts to dwindle, those people will be screwed. They will spend every evening looking for somewhere to charge, at the same time as everyone else. And unless they do that in the middle of the night, they will pay very handsomely for the privilege.

Cheap overnight charging is only available for the middle classes with driveways. Those least able to pay, will pay the most.

 

[addjunkie]

You obviously say this from the position of charging you car at home. Or being able to if you have an EV.

The argument falls apart at the point you cant charge at home. Then an EV, regardless of size is a massive step backwards. Given thats over half the working population, thats a bit of a problem

That particular problem simply isnt going to get fixed, because, basically it cant be.

When the supply of cheap ICE cars starts to dwindle, those people will be screwed. They will spend every evening looking for somewhere to charge, at the same time as everyone else. And unless they do that in the middle of the night, they will pay very handsomely for the privilege.

Cheap overnight charging is only available for the middle classes with driveways. Those least able to pay, will pay the most.

I do t disagree…..or they go the click in battery change out….where you drive into service station, and the do a 30 second battery swap