Adventures in an all electric vehicle.

[brewdexta]

How about quadrupling the range of the batteries?

Scientists hail new battery with 4 times energy density of lithium-ion

New battery developed by researchers in US could provide "thousand mile" range for EVs and open up new possibilities for long-haul transport and electric planes.

thedriven.io

Cue " it will never happen" etc. etc. etc. But a combination of this and all the other battery advances now there is demand just might.

 

[Ubique]

Where are you gonna get all this lithium from exactly? For spare sets of batteries for everybody.

There is less lithium than there is oil....

Frustrated man - bangs his head on something solid.

You gonna make lithium in shorter supply - push the price up - batteries kg for kg - will cost more than gold.

EV cars are already too dear - you gonna make them cost even more.

'Its not over yet': Portuguese village resists lithium mine

Covas do Barroso, a village of just over 100 residents, could become home to the largest lithium mine in Western Europe.

www.euronews.com

I have yet to see one form factor common across vehicles from the same manufacturer, there is currently zero chance of having two or even five form factors / capacity options to make the swap-out viable in commercial terms.

 

[mtt.tr]

Sadly swapping out battery paks of fuel station forecourts or 300bar pressure bottles of burning hydrogen in ICE engines is not gonna work.

Bottle swapping has more mileage than lithium paks in my mind - but still not workable.

hydrogen has so many fail points currently, cant see it happening anytime soon at all

 

[premmington]

hydrogen has so many fail points currently, cant see it happening anytime soon at all

Sadly I have to agree with you - if tech moves forward - I think this is where we will end up thou.

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[premmington]

How about quadrupling the range of the batteries?

Scientists hail new battery with 4 times energy density of lithium-ion

New battery developed by researchers in US could provide "thousand mile" range for EVs and open up new possibilities for long-haul transport and electric planes.

thedriven.io

Cue " it will never happen" etc. etc. etc. But a combination of this and all the other battery advances now there is demand just might.

Oh battery tech will move on - this is one think I am sure of it...

 

[Seadog]

Battery breakthrough ‘offers 1,500 kilometre range from just 10 minutes of charging’

First commercial solid-state battery offers nearly double the range of the long-range version of Tesla’s Model Y.

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Agrismith]

I am sorry you not grasping it mate.

Get a torch - take the batteries out of it - then put a spare set next to them - then count the batteries.

No I'm sorry we are on different pages. Every ev currently is running around with a battery 3-4 times the size they need to account for the long journeys. So say most the time they only fitted a single unit then when a long journey comes up they fit the others. It will reduce the total volume of batteries fitted to vehicles at any given time. Therefore the total volume of batteries doesn't increase but the distribution of the batteries changes.
And I have already said we don't know what battery options are going to be available tomorrow so we should leave all routes open. Otherwise this argument will be happening in a couple of years but over different battery types.

On top of this a review of the entire vehicles should really happen if the government is serious as what's is the point in several tonnes of Tesla when an escooter will do alot of car journeys.

 

[GRW]

Wrong! YET AGAIN!

You really don’t understand the principles of electric cars, do you?

You don’t even know the meaning of the REX part. It EXTENDS the range, if necessitated. It allows the ’range anxiety‘ mob to be able to avoid being stranded with no electrical power. It allows every other user to manage a slightly larger range in order to get home to charge (the thinking drivers). Obviously not quite like a hybrid - well, perhaps in reverse, if you were to understand that.

How much power do you think it really needs to toddle along (if necessary) to the next charge point? My peugeot 106 only has 60BHP and I don’t use all of that ‘available power‘ most of the time.

I'm thinking that you're really getting rather cross
I don't understand the principles huh?
Whatever helps you sleep at night, that's fine by me.
How much does your EV cost again?
(No, don't think about it - you'll never sleep again... better you just blame me for not understanding the basic principle of adding a trickle of fuel, so that the tank takes a little longer to run dry ).

Newsflash. I understand the principle. That doesn't change that it's an over-priced shoddy half-ar$ed solution!

 

[premmington]

No I'm sorry we are on different pages. Every ev currently is running around with a battery 3-4 times the size they need to account for the long journeys. So say most the time they only fitted a single unit then when a long journey comes up they fit the others. It will reduce the total volume of batteries fitted to vehicles at any given time. Therefore the total volume of batteries doesn't increase but the distribution of the batteries changes.
And I have already said we don't know what battery options are going to be available tomorrow so we should leave all routes open. Otherwise this argument will be happening in a couple of years but over different battery types.

On top of this a review of the entire vehicles should really happen if the government is serious as what's is the point in several tonnes of Tesla when an escooter will do alot of car journeys.

The buying public want - bigger more horsepower - more range - they do - they will pay for it.

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I started this pages ago saying lighter less powerful is the answer. But they the public are not gonna wear it....


There is also a concent issue here - over personal choice of vehicle size and power. Even if we go over to EV's - we don't live in China - we don't want the government legislating our forms of transport.

 

[willie.macleod]

But the idea is there would be no que. That's the whole point so there wouldn't be a chance to charge in the que.

A Renault twizzy battery pack is around 100kg from Google. Devided into 4 packs then the average person could swap them by hand pretty easily with help onsite for those who can't.
If we truly believe we are going to save the planet or infact believe that the planet needs saving, and simultaneously begrudge the reduction of personal transport, then the next option is to reduce the size of personal transport, and the likes of the Renault twizzy, electric motorbikes and e scooters are surely the way forward

People go into shops and spend money whilst waiting for their car to charge like in the futuristic Gridserve Norwich. Or go for a walk. My leaf is charging tonight in a remote car park in Harris right beside a lovely walk. There's no rush for it to fully charge in most cases. If I was to use a swapping station you'd need them all over the place and they all cost money to setup and maintain. Unfortunately a lot of chargepoint owners struggle to maintain the charge points that they already have.

Twizzys and electric motorbikes might be fun little things but they aren't great at transporting goods or more than 2 people. The shape of a motorbike doesn't lend itself to efficiency, a lot of drag for most. My Leaf normally travels pretty full of either people or things and if you use the kWh per Kg or m3 moved then it works out very favourably compared to the smaller 1 and 2 person vehicle options.

 

[daleyd]

My thinking was.... well it seems that people already don't get to BUY the battery even if they buy the EV.... so if battery packs were retained by the Mfr or a Distributor - is that really all that different a concept to what we fo already with other stuff?

Sorry but as far as I’m aware that’s just not the reality, despite what you may have heard. Apart from early Nissan leaf and Renault models battery leasing really isn’t a thing. It was mooted as an idea when ev first started as a way to allay fears of battery packs not lasting, but it turns out they appear to be lasting in general better than expected so it’s never persisted.

Most of the leased battery vehicles are now passed over to owned, I’d be surprised if there are any left.

 

[not done it yet]

And more the point, why don't they just do that anyway? I guess using petrol to create electricity isn't that efficient?

Some do. Stupid marketing hype that many fall for. It may not be less efficient than direct fossil fuel drive to the wheels, but is still using fossil fuels for all the energy. Small EVs can be charged on 100% renewable energy (wind, solar, hydro) or cheap-as-chips nuclear energy.

The engine, in these offerings is running more efficiently than ICE only, and does not need to deliver the same power as as a usual fossil fuelled car. There is some extra advantage if energy recuperation is installed instead of all braking just heating the atmosphere (and producing the usual ICE car brake dust pollution, too).

Some can collect the energy for their BEV from their homes, so could cost nothing, for ’fuel’, at some times of the year.

I’m currently only charging my car on E7 and some solar PV. Shortly, it may be cheaper to charge in the daytime when sunny (when I have installed some more PV). But not a real problem - I could reduce the unit cost of night-time leccy to 7.5p/kWh - that would be less than 2p per mile travelled - and be predominantly, if not all, renewable or carbon-neutral electricity. Compare that with any ICE vehicle you wish to choose.

 

[premmington]

Sorry but as far as I’m aware that’s just not the reality, despite what you may have heard. Apart from early Nissan leaf and Renault models battery leasing really isn’t a thing. It was mooted as an idea when ev first started as a way to allay fears of battery packs not lasting, but it turns out they appear to be lasting in general better than expected so it’s never persisted.

Most of the leased battery vehicles are now passed over to owned, I’d be surprised if there are any left.

I would agree with @daleyd in my experience the batteries are the best bit of the design of the current EV. They are not the bit that have failed on the ones I have repaired.

Battery tech will change... It will...

 

[Ubique]

No I'm sorry we are on different pages. Every ev currently is running around with a battery 3-4 times the size they need to account for the long journeys....

If that's the case, why does every BEV I see on as daily basis have the AC turned off in summer and the heating turned off in winter - and a heavy coat & *shudder* driving gloves on the back seat in most cases? IF the battery is oversized as you say, then why do owners drivers of a medium-sized BEV suffer range anxiety despite this spare capacity you claim? Most of them have commuting journeys (we can see the charge state, journey time, distance travelled etc.) as the main usage, but still people won't use 'consumers' unless they absolutely have to.

 

[brewdexta]

Our Leaf has a heat pump and we use heat or air con as required, usually on auto. We've never turned it off to get a few more miles.

Better still, we can turn on the heat remotely and it's toasty warm with clear windows on frosty mornings

 

[not done it yet]

I'm thinking that you're really getting rather cross

No not cross. But I do have a shirt with the following emblazoned across the front:

I’m not anti-social - I’m anti-stupid.

It would seem that it might be appropriate for when meeting some on here.

 

[Ubique]

I have one with 'Ich könnte meine Meinung ändern, aber dann würden wir uns beide falsch' - seems appropriate.

 

[Agrismith]

The buying public want - bigger more horsepower - more range - they do - they will pay for it.

-----------

I started this pages ago saying lighter less powerful is the answer. But they the public are not gonna wear it....


There is also a concent issue here - over personal choice of vehicle size and power. Even if we go over to EV's - we don't live in China - we don't want the government legislating our forms of transport.

They can keep their horsepower and range. But it would be a daily option rather than a built in feature. Go and sit on a petrol station for court and see how many people put aless than 30 quid in at a time. Some of these are big flash cars too. I assume it's impatient's more than lack of funds so the lack of range clearly doesn't bother them on a daily basis as long as it's their when needed.

And it's a simple fact if in this country we don't start making sensible choices ourselves then gouvenment will intervene.
I really don't like gouvenment intervention so therefore I'm all for the idea of sensible choices. Regardless of anyone's thoughts on climate change we consume far to much and need to reduce consumption. Apart from this the roads would nicer places if cars shrunk back to the size of 30 years ago.

And their choices are only influenced by car manufacturers advertising the majority of people don't have anywhere near as much free thought as they think they do. Advertising makes most of modern societies decisions.

 

[redlig]

The buying public want - bigger more horsepower - more range - they do - they will pay for it.

-----------

I started this pages ago saying lighter less powerful is the answer. But they the public are not gonna wear it....


There is also a concent issue here - over personal choice of vehicle size and power. Even if we go over to EV's - we don't live in China - we don't want the government legislating our forms of transport.

Re Gov Legislation . If we can't become more responsible in our choices the the Gov will eventually have to make them for us in more things than transport and we will not like it .
Bugger !! Agrismith beat me to it .

 

[Ubique]

Maybe because it's generally a trivial act to 'top up' am ICE vehicle? personally I do it once a month but that suits my usage and coincides with payday.