Angle welding problems

[olek]

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/DKJ3...-1279-4e2e-a4c7-6f5c06d8aba5&rmStoreLevelAB=3

delivery offered
up to 50mm2 (they say)

both female and male connectors red 35 50 mm2 https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1-Se...id=6dd5d07c-f1c5-4f48-8084-fe6d179f4e09&tpp=1

About 9€ with 15 days delivery (I did not find the black version but it should be there)

 

[olek]

I give you another trick :
If you found the wanted dinse connector on Amazon with the "prime" option
as there but for 25mm2 cord https://www.amazon.fr/Connecteur-so...d=1512316283&sr=8-4&keywords=dinse+connecteur

(see "prime " near the object)
Open a "prime" account on amazon , it will be free for one month (do that with a new mail address created just for that for instance so no confusion later)
Before the 30th day close the prime account so you are not charged the 50€/year

Since then all the "prime" objects will be delivered to you free of charge . (This does not mean they are the best deals, as some shipment cot is in the price generally, but it can be an option for some goodies)

You need to enter your credit card info to open the prime account so do not forget to close it before 30 days !

 

[Memmeddu]

I was looking dinse on AliExpress, they may be good but...
We are sure to want something that must be crossed by high current, made in china?
It's also true that it's only a brass piece.
I was thinking to do this
Buy two dinse plugs big size rated for 50mm2 max (isn't to the cost but only to have a better connection)
And four pannel sockets, big size rated for high amps.
Three blacks one (two for my welder)
And a red one for my future engine drive (i hope)

Now i don't know if it's better for the engine drive, have tow 10 meter leads whitout clamps but whit dinse socket to connect different "tools" as arcair torches (AliExpress 22€ rated for 600A, i don't guess to much), electrode holders, clamps, remote control pannel, wire feeder or whatelse.
Or have every single tool whit his dedicated cable.

Now it's something over the orizzont yet but you what do in this situation?

 

[olek]

I dont really know what I'd do, with your 50mm2 cable you may probably use connectors, I will let other chime in for that.

I think it would be cautious to buy couples (male and female "on the welder" connectors together, so in case of dimension problem you are sure they couple well)

Many welders sold today may use similar connectors I think. The same are sold by specialized shops here I think so just the price will be changed then.

With Amazon you have a good return policy, but I may say even with Aliexpress if you say you are not pleased with something you receive a refund proposal (they seem to be very attentive not to leave unhappy customers so this is good policy to me)

WIth Amazon you can send back free of charge any object (for cheap 10€ objects they even reimburse you and tell you can keep them)

Only choice for quality is the question then.

You will have a strong enough welder to use arcair torches ?

 

[Memmeddu]

You will have a strong enough welder to use arcair torches ?

It's not a certain thing, but if i get an engine driven welder or i make it (nothing of tecnologic) i point on something that give 200 or 300A nothing to big
Another obligated need is an engine driven air compressor o a big compressor that can give something like 500 700 litre for minute.
A friend recently change it but before he say me
<do you want it? >
<Yes why not i need it >
Couple days later
<oh hy, today a man came to buy my compressor >
<ooo..k>
This is only an example to say how much i'm unlucky

I want prevent any option to don't have future big problems

 

[olek]

No much things are really free in the today world. That may be that your expectations where a little too high (but your friend should have call you before the sale)

Better luck next time, it is an engine driven compressor you need? I have no idea how much air they deliver. You need 400V if not it should be less expensive to use an engine driven..

 

[Memmeddu]

Are many, the things that i need
The problem whit the engine driven compressor is that it was be mine but the buyer took him for a test, my friend never see him anymore.
The man is vanished whit the compressor.
I did want him for the engine because was an 2 strokes 7 hp Lombardini engine

 

[Memmeddu]

Are many, the things that i need
The problem whit the engine driven compressor is that it was be mine but the buyer took him for a test, my friend never see him anymore.
The man is vanished whit the compressor.
I did want him for the engine because was an 2 strokes 7 hp Lombardini engine

This is the officially version the more real version it's that my friend prefer the money than my happy

 

[olek]

Well, I asked how you could know what your amps are, when using only 6013 1/8

Shamelessly , here is the long answer I obtained ; ( http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?730701-Questions-for-the-Stick-guys&p=9091501#post9091501 )

"1/8 6013 max amps is 120-135 depending on rod brand
.
so if you use rod type thats 1/8 6013 max 120 amps and weld at 125 amps you can burn rod for a 1" or 2". if you try burning full length rod it will not make it to the end before rod and flux is red/orange hot up to electrode holder. you will make a weld full of splatter even it you wanted to weld 125amp even for short duration
.
a rod with cellulose mixed in flux will turn dark and smoke cause cellulose is like paper turns dark, smokes just before starting on fire. at that hot, weld quality will not be that good anyway. over recommended amps with 6013 will give poorer welding quality
.
in general rather than use 125 amps with 1/8 rod (too much for rod) you should use 5/32 rod which is in the recommended amp range.
.
the welding rod is your true amp meter. if you weld 1/8 6013 at 200 amps with no problems its not that you are welding at 200 amps it only means you machines amp meter is not accurate. the welding rod is your true amp meter. you cannot trust volt or amp meter at welding machine. if you have bad welding cable connections, that get hot, not all the amps is making it to the welding rod arc. you might loose 5 to 50 amps or more to many things. a extra 200 feet of welding cable will get warm but cause 200 feet the heat is spread out (not noticed). none the less amps are being absorb by anything getting warm or hot its all amps not making it to the end of the welding rod"

 

[olek]

here is what it makes me think :

There are welders that have a display showing in real time amps and volts (or amps only) . I suppose that in that case they are connected to the circuitry and what they show may be more realistic than the amps set point on a less evolved welder .

Now the inverters with pfc (power factor control) They pretend to cheat the ohms law and/or work with reduced voltage . Do I need to understand that in that case the max amps you can get from them will be severely reduced, but they have an amps/volt curve that will allow the arc to be maintained despite of this , or an after fact accumulation and regulation that work as fulling a tank with energy reserve to compensate for a low input voltage

For that last , and because I was said there is such regulator using a heavy condenser but the condenser discharge is milliseconds, I doubt it can do much more than keep a more stable arc despite unevenness of input.
IF I use my welder at 110V I will obtain less amps, and if it goes down to 90V it will still work but I suppose it will be overloaded easily and will go on security mode soon just after a very limited time of welding

So even with the inverters cheat , the volts:amps law cannot be overridden for quite some time is not it ?
There is certainly a part of arc creation that I leave aside not understanding the exact process and the system they use allow to use minimal voltage to draw maximum amps (while some seem to say losses are way more limited with transformer types, so I admit I am really lost there

I dont see how to cheat with that voltage/amp thing, unless a big battery is in the circuitry (but they are not the size of those little inverter boxes I suppose, despite progress in batteries , to obtain welding current for some time only car/truck type lead batteries would do .)

 

[Memmeddu]

To end all this problem we all need something as 12000€
(mosa ts400e)
But we can't.
So i think that your answer is good, because i think that voltage imput it's a very critical parameter to have a good welding.
Now my welder it's a bivolt welder so i can use it whit 230v (as now) or 380v threephase
It's a old welder, today i found some dirty on the screws so i retapped all to clean the treath, i hope to can try it today because yesterday was raining so i did can not test.
May be possible that my welder it's a good welder if connected on 380v.
I'm also thinking to mod it, as add an rectifier bridge.
But today i hope that my uncle give me an faulty gen set, if the engine it's good, i start to built my engine drive

 

[Memmeddu]

Today i was welding all the afternoon from the 16:30 to the 18:30.
Results
I try to do fillet joints, and first attempt was not to good.
So i tryed on other side and here i make something of good, slag removed whitout difficult.
I understood that it's also a problem of sight, because first attempt was not good and i was positioned as for flat joints and saw not as well the puddle.
So on other side i was in front of the joint to have clear sight of the puddle.
I didn't move as for flat or vertical, i did a little round move so no u shape.
I saw clearly the metal fill the joint trougth the puddle.
Only problem that i had it's the end, in the end circa about half inch before the end i left a little hole, because i think that i was thinking to fill the puddle.
After this i tryed on the other side whitout grind the faulty welder to do vertical up and it went good, i understood also here that i must wait to see the Yellow fill the puddle and than go up.
Repeat this for all the joint and stop when the piece it's to hot.
I have problem only to start properly in vertical up so i need something like an good 3/4 inch to start.
The slag it's not to good to see but i think it's normal (i hope)
After a hit whit my chipping hammer on the side it goes away very quickly and easy.
Next step after learn how perfect vertical fillet joints, it's overhead

 

[olek]

Hello, yes when starting you need to warm the rod enough 25 mm (one inch toward your start location then reverse direction) slowly and lightly in direction of your starting point allow to have a perfect start without porosity
Making little circles make the cooking more even, the heat well distributed , the slag peels off
but it is may be less easy to keep the same thickness all along.


Did you try to make the rod red glow ? Salg is nice to see if not too much cooked

It is soon time to put your piece in a bucket of water (after 2 15 cm beads for instance on 8 mm thick steel)

Yes beginners tend to run too fast, not waiting to see the weld flowing wher you want it.

Better run too slow then correct speed may be .

Did you try the basic trick of just lowering the stinger while it shorten, without changing its angle ?

The slag look "nice" usually ; with too much heat it burns and an irregular look.

 

[Memmeddu]

I think it's better make a new thread.
Do you also think this?
Because now we must talking about vertical fillet joints.
Here i think it's better put the rod in the middle of the joint and little bit not more angle respect the ground.
This evening i saw that it's possibible do vertical up whitout push to much, just only to have an half electrode diamatre of distance from the pieces that we want to weld together, melted slag can also fell because when you go up this cover the welding that it's allready covered.
It's right?

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

@Memmeddu vertical up fillet, you'll want to reduce you amps compared to what you'll be running on the horizontal, and keep a tight arc fired right into the root. As you get better you'll be able to experiment with a litte manipulation. Until then just keep running beads practice practice practice.

 

[Memmeddu]

I must try

 

[olek]

I think it's better make a new thread.
Do you also think this?
Because now we must talking about vertical fillet joints.
Here i think it's better put the rod in the middle of the joint and little bit not more angle respect the ground.
This evening i saw that it's possibible do vertical up whitout push to much, just only to have an half electrode diamatre of distance from the pieces that we want to weld together, melted slag can also fell because when you go up this cover the welding that it's allready covered.
It's right?

Hello, I am not sure I understand.

Push angle is small, the slag fell, when we make Z we can see it flowing (but the weld stay)
Yes it mean a tight arc to have the weld right in the corner. I think Harry (Potter) is right.

 

[Memmeddu]

ello, I am not sure I understand

Me to

No i was only thinking that it's better open new thread about vertical up fillet joints.

Now i must know how gravity might change the puddle in different positions

 

[olek]

Take an old thread on vertical up, there are plenty, or make one asking how to plan to learn vertical up.

Good idea to first learn the tight arc in the corner, this is the position from where we move right - left

You also see the puddle cooling left/right when the motion left right is large enough.

 

[Memmeddu]

Thank you