- Thread starter malcolm
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The thing is when you are experimenting you tend to concentrate on what you are trying to achieve and forget other things. An open transformer with uninsulated mains connectors is a recipe for a nasty one. The electric shock is simple, it will either kill you or it won't. Its all the other things that can happen, like the burns you may get and the mental trauma of being in an accident. That sort of thing can take years to recover from.
matt1978
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It looks like you all definitely did have a very productive day.......and its also very nice to see the photos, especially Snowys sections.
However, I would just re-iterate, that its not really fair to say that the Oxford was 3% of the price but still gave 80% of the performance.........this is for many reasons
1) Your working on a 2nd hand price of £75 for the Oxford and a brand new price of a Lorch, I believe that someone said earlier that the price when new for the Oxford, was circa £750.
2) Your not comparing like for like, the fact that the T220 can weld AC/DC on MMA is just a small part of its features. If Snowy had wanted to buy a machine that was purely only for AC/DC MMA he wouldn't of bought an all singing/dancing digital tig inverter (Hence cost)
I am in no way knocking the Oxford, they are excellent bits of kit and I doubt that you would see any modern equipment lasting over 50 years as you do with the Oxfords, but just because it can weld well on AC MMA, doesn't also mean that its fair to say it has 80% of the performance of a modern digital AC/DC Tig Inverter.
Lorch, had AC MMA Transformers in our range up until only 2 years ago and it was purely the fact that we couldnt make them out of copper and produce them in Germany for a cheap enough price to justify there continuation in the product line, so it would of been much fairer to make a direct comparison with the Oxford and this type of Lorch machine. I had said on numerous occasions that I for one (and many others) was saying that AC MMA Transformers were NOT bad or of no use in a modern workshop, it was only the brand name examples that were being quoted (Aldi etc) that people were commenting on.
I am looking forward to the proper forum meet at my place though, there you will be able to try lots of new products and give feed back
Here we go again!....It was an exteremely informative day, thanks again to Snowcat for putting in the time to do the dye pen.
Its a good excerise to have your work looked at and see where you are going wrong. Its all too easy to fall into the trap of 'that looks ok so it must be ok'.
This also highlighted selecting the right tool for the right job. Trying to work overhead on a ladder with the oxford would be a mare. Even with long leads you'd have to deal with the physical weight of them. Where as a little inverter that you could strap on your back with just a normal 13 amp mains lead trailing would be ideal.
On this sort of outting you need to decide what you are going to do first, say do 3 types of joint with the same rod on all the machines and swap operators! It needs to be simple text book stuff that welders would do as part of their training, that way you will get some real comparison. Once you've done that you can start messing about with different rod types etc.
I think I'm going to look for some more lessons!
Its a good excerise to have your work looked at and see where you are going wrong. Its all too easy to fall into the trap of 'that looks ok so it must be ok'.
This also highlighted selecting the right tool for the right job. Trying to work overhead on a ladder with the oxford would be a mare. Even with long leads you'd have to deal with the physical weight of them. Where as a little inverter that you could strap on your back with just a normal 13 amp mains lead trailing would be ideal.
On this sort of outting you need to decide what you are going to do first, say do 3 types of joint with the same rod on all the machines and swap operators! It needs to be simple text book stuff that welders would do as part of their training, that way you will get some real comparison. Once you've done that you can start messing about with different rod types etc.
I think I'm going to look for some more lessons!
matt1978
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matt1978
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.....not holes in the space/time continuum then
Yeah........but they they can be dramatically reduced or eliminated by the use of a flux.............a flux capacitor
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mostly incorrect technique, or damp rods, or both....
matt1978
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I remember when I was learning at Babcocks, I was forever getting wormholes at the start of each run and it was down to my bad technique, impropper angle and keeping too long arc length on strike up.........
I am pleased to say that I overcome this and turned into the awesome welder I am today!!
irondarren
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Matt when you say you over came your wormhole problem, was that with the aid of a modern software based inverter
well they do kind of make it far to easy.
The point you said about an oxford being around £700 when new, i used to have a link to a internet based company that sold oxfords units and they certainly were not cheap, if i remember correctly a 250 amp unit was around £1000. In fact prices were really not that different from inverter prices. So pound for pound i would say a quality inverter wins hands down.
well they do kind of make it far to easy.
The point you said about an oxford being around £700 when new, i used to have a link to a internet based company that sold oxfords units and they certainly were not cheap, if i remember correctly a 250 amp unit was around £1000. In fact prices were really not that different from inverter prices. So pound for pound i would say a quality inverter wins hands down.
matt1978
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I wish..........at the time 14 years ago.......there wasnt so many fancy things about then, and the welding school at Babcocks was even further behind the times as regards technology, they had the old wheelbarrow style, Kemppi Tylearcs and a external HF unit (Soveriegn) I think the brand was.
But it was purely about the welding technique, not making things easier.
It was really intense as you had to do the same thing over and over till it was perfect or else they wouldnt let you move to the next task.
So you started off just doing stringers on M/S plate with 6013 rods, then only when they was perfect (even if it took days) you could move onto the a T-Fillet, then a lap joint etc. Then it be positional stringers, T's and Laps. Then it would be changed to 7018 rods and then you'd be back to the beggining of Stringers in the flat position and so on.....
Then all the same with Tig welding on M/S and S/S and then after that they let you loose on pipewelding.....even on the pipes you couldnt go onto the next joint/position if the previous one hadnt been passed N.A.D on X-Ray.
Thinking back, the material costs, NDT testing costs, tuition costs must of run into millions over the years
The old Oxford type set is great for stick welding, in my opinion there is nothing better. They can make bad rods look good. If I was welding in a workshop day-in day-out I would have an Oxford.
The most modern Inverters that do everything are excellent pieces of kit but as with everything there is a compromise.
Is it a fair comparison? I think it is actually. Its like comparing the off road ability of an old Land Rover against a Rav 4. In that context the comparison is fair but the comparison would also be fair if you were comparing the ON road ability.
The most modern Inverters that do everything are excellent pieces of kit but as with everything there is a compromise.
Is it a fair comparison? I think it is actually. Its like comparing the off road ability of an old Land Rover against a Rav 4. In that context the comparison is fair but the comparison would also be fair if you were comparing the ON road ability.
matt1978
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Yes, as I said they are excellent pieces of kit.
I dont quite agree with the car analogy, as the Rav 4 (or simerla) is a micky mouse off road car, its pretty much just a pretend feature that the car has, but you wouldnt buy that car if you wanted to do serious off roading as it wouldnt last 5 mins in a muddy field.
However if someone wanted to buy a AC/DC inverter purely for MMA welding, then they would still get excellent results, even if used daily in a workshop......it might not last for 50 years like the Oxford however
I dont quite agree with the car analogy, as the Rav 4 (or simerla) is a micky mouse off road car, its pretty much just a pretend feature that the car has, but you wouldnt buy that car if you wanted to do serious off roading as it wouldnt last 5 mins in a muddy field.
However if someone wanted to buy a AC/DC inverter purely for MMA welding, then they would still get excellent results, even if used daily in a workshop......it might not last for 50 years like the Oxford however
