Arc Welder Group Test

[aero]

Snowcat...see what you mean about those 7018 rods......I think BOC got ripped of and the Chinese flogged them some chop sticks instead.

 

[scarecrow]

My conclusions of this most useful and enjoyable meeting are as follows:
Ah...the Cosmo. The smoke was unfortunate and that's wholly my fault for meddling with it inside. Nevertheless, the cut out after 2 or 3 minutes on a high-ish setting was about what I'd experienced before. I can live with that, as I'm not a professional welder and wouldn't tend to use it for long runs and/or on a high setting. On lower settings, it wouldn't be such a problem, especially if I fit a cooling fan. .

I know you are blaming the installation for causing the smoke but the fact is that the wires were overheating which caused it melt in the first place this shouldn't happen and can be dangerous the machine isn't designed to run at its maximum amps

.....not holes in the space/time continuum then

that's a pity would have been a lot easier for the guys in Switzerland to nip down to aldi
Instead of giving years building that Collider thingy

 

[aero]

My sister in law was one of the engineers incharge of boring the tunnel at Cern. My tedious claim to fame.

Her current project is revamping the railway stations in Vienna for the OeOB (Austrian railways)

 

[snowcat]

yeahh those 7018s are just plain crap, if you can run em, the 5mm 6013s white boxed run just fine.....

 

[malcolm]

Sooo, what conclusions......and making sense of things?

For starters I'm keen not to argue about which welder was best for a butt weld in 0.8mm sheet. There's another thread for all that crap. Anyone who isn't eccentric would not be using an arc welder on 0.8mm.

If we were going to turn our group test into a buyers guide for folk I'd still have some questions:

Lorch (both) performed well. No questions about them.

W0lf performed well too. We all know about reliability from previous forum posts, but the weld quality itself was fine. Perfectly good for occasional DIY use and hope for the best it doesn't break. Not enough amps though on the one we tested, but there are higher amp versions.

Pity we didn't have time to test the Sealey inverter, but I'd imagine if a cheap and nasty inverter performed well this would have done too. And it looked battered so better on the reliability front maybe.

The Cosmo buzzbox was reported as difficult to use in the short period that it worked. Also I'd be annoyed if I bought a welder that didn't run more than one rod before setting fire to itself as even when trying to learn arc welding you do get through a few rods in quick succession. Others have added fans to these things on the forum, but if aero found the thing difficult to use they'd probably be poor for learning with. I'm inclined to recommend cheap inverters rather than these even if you can buy one for £40 in Aldi.

The only welder we didn't get a good grasp of during the test was the Oxford. I'm left only with their good reputation and my brief try on the flat where the arc was tricky to start but everything else was lovely. Aero - do you fancy a vertical up running 3.2mm 6013s for comparison? Also I didn't get a photo of the beast. Could you pull it out and send me a pic?

 

[irondarren]

Malcolm you say the cosmo and the oxford were both difficult to strike an arc with, both of those have around 50 ocv. Its a shame you didnt have more time with the oxford, change the voltage settings on the oxford to 80ocv (i think) and they strike very easy. But of course at 80v it lowers the amperage. so a 180 amp machine will run at a much lower amperage. (i assume the oxford had 3 power terminals on? 1 being a 50v setting the other an 80 and then the Earth terminal)
I would reckon that even the wolf inverter produced about 70v ocv

 

[malcolm]

I've no idea how the Oxford was set up, and I didn't get a chance to try the Cosmo before it blew up. Aero?

 

[Muggins the Mug]

The Cosmo buzzbox was reported as difficult to use in the short period that it worked. Also I'd be annoyed if I bought a welder that didn't run more than one rod before setting fire to itself as even when trying to learn arc welding you do get through a few rods in quick succession. Others have added fans to these things on the forum, but if aero found the thing difficult to use they'd probably be poor for learning with. I'm inclined to recommend cheap inverters rather than these even if you can buy one for £40 in Aldi.

Hi Malcolm,

That Powercraft I got from Aldi for £40 has a fan fitted. Is the Cosmo one a variation of the Powercraft model or a totally different one?

Regards,

Ian.

 

[malcolm]

I suspect they are much of a muchness in design, though the fan powered ones ought to have a better duty cycle.

 

[GeorgeB]

For starters I'm keen not to argue about which welder was best for a butt weld in 0.8mm sheet. There's another thread for all that crap. Anyone who isn't eccentric would not be using an arc welder on 0.8mm.

I’m sorry for bringing 0.8mm sheet into this thread, even fleetingly and indirectly. Yes, please refer any comments about arc welding 0.8mm sheet to the other thread. I may be eccentric but I think I’ve now proved it can be done, so I’m pleased even if nobody else has the slightest interest or can see the potential.

I was highly impressed with the Lorch but I don’t think you can ignore the high cost. It will suit the professional but I wonder how many DIYers would splash out that kind of money.

I hope any concerns about the Wolf Inverter’s reliability are unfounded but, even if it only lasts 2 or 3 years, I suggest it would offer great value and, from what we saw, very good performance.

I’m alarmed that some people may still be blaming the smoke from the Cosmo on SIP, the manufacturers. I tried to make it clear that it was my fault by dabbling around with some of the wiring inside. But mud sticks and there’s no smoke without fire, so I’m sorry it’s getting an unfair bad press. I don’t doubt it’s more quirky than many machines and, whilst Aero did well for a first attempt, he would probably have done better after a bit more practice. Neither do I think it’s fair to tar the Aldi welders with the same brush. They have a higher build quality than my Cosmo (with a fan for a start) and a higher maximum output. I still see a big role for these buzz boxes over inverters, (a) because they’re normally cheaper to buy and especially (b) because they’re almost certain to last more years before conking out. As you know, I have both, so I hope I'm impartial.

If Aero wants to try a vertical up running 3.2mm 6013s with the Oxford, I could try the same thing at home with the Cosmo, if anyone is interested. Perhaps nobody is interested! I know Aero’s Oxford was running on 80 volts for at least some of the time, because I looked.

 

[zardoz]

However, I would just re-iterate, that its not really fair to say that the Oxford was 3% of the price but still gave 80% of the performance.........this is for many reasons

1) Your working on a 2nd hand price of £75 for the Oxford and a brand new price of a Lorch, I believe that someone said earlier that the price when new for the Oxford, was circa £750.

Thats fair comment. I would say that £ for £ its about the same, maybe even cheaper for the Lorch. But then these days extremely complicated bits of kit can be made for a few pounds by machine, whereas back in the day it was all hand soldering and breadboards, and a lot of man hours.

NB: I speak as an Oxford oil cooled RT350 owner and i yield to nobody in my admiration for those everlasting old pieces of british engineering.

 

[zardoz]

Sorry for maybe asking a silly question
but not having seen dye test on welding before
can someone explaine the fualts uncovered in the
photos?

Gary

Actually i was wondering that myself. What exactly was it consisting of? i know at night class we have 10% hydrochloric acid to show weld penetration and any defects.

My sister in law was one of the engineers incharge of boring the tunnel at Cern. My tedious claim to fame.

Her current project is revamping the railway stations in Vienna for the OeOB (Austrian railways)

can she get moi a job as apprentice loafer and tea garçon ?

 

[snowcat]

Just one mention, really the 220 was a tad of a red hearing, firstly its an 1ph A/C D/C tig that happens to do MMA, I would never take it out to do a straight stick job, the little H150 does that quite happily and is much lighter, robust and cheaper if the worst happens to replace (circa £400) this would be a much closer relative to the oxfords....

 

[irondarren]

I I know Aero’s Oxford was running on 80 volts for at least some of the time, because I looked.

When i used to work for a company we used to have an old oxford, i used to use the cast rods Ni/Fe ones on the 80v setting, much softer arc.

 

[irondarren]

Blimey snowy is a h150 about £400.
Matt sure your not pushing cheap made chinese stuff for that sort of money Are you sure for that money, it really is made in Germany, it isnt one of those thats made in china with a real imitation made in Germany sticker is it?.

I didn't realise they were that cheap, i was expecting a h150 to be closer to the £500 mark, quality obviously isnt that expensive

 

[bawjaws]

400 is cheap, the way people keep talking about them i thought it would be around 800 for the mma machines

 

[TechnicAl]

Yes, as I said they are excellent pieces of kit.

I dont quite agree with the car analogy, as the Rav 4 (or simerla) is a micky mouse off road car, its pretty much just a pretend feature that the car has, but you wouldnt buy that car if you wanted to do serious off roading as it wouldnt last 5 mins in a muddy field.

However if someone wanted to buy a AC/DC inverter purely for MMA welding, then they would still get excellent results, even if used daily in a workshop......it might not last for 50 years like the Oxford however

Hope there are no RAV 4 owners on here

 

[matt1978]

Hope there are no RAV 4 owners on here

Nah I think they will all be on a hairdressing forum mate

 

[aero]

The difference between the oxfords and mordern machines is more like the difference between an electric typewriter and a word processor.

Yes you can produce a neatly typed document on an electric type writer, but the operator has be able to spell, understand grammer, also pay attention to the page layout. Any mistakes are not easily corrected.

The word processor has a vast array of tools to make life simpler and produce many different finished results.

That's not the whole story though. If a company needs to send people on a 4 week course (say) to learn to produce good weld with an Oxford, but a one week course to get the same results with a modern inverter, as Director of the company would you spend a little more on machines and a whole lot less on training? This is exactly the reason mig welding is so popular, you can show an operator how to use the gear and get decent welds in a matter of hours as mig welding is a semi automatic process. With MMA its a skill that has to be practiced over and over to get it right, hence the rigorous coding system.

Of course the down side to all the technology is that people have less training (and skill).

RAV 4, definately a hairdresser's special

 

[Archie]

Along with the MX-5 owners! (Sorry Woz! )