Best value for money 6013's

[Arclikeharrypotter]

Yer but dont you get arc blow on any rod when welding on DC,i was to believe not so much with AC though?

True, but I've found it less of a problem with certain electrodes, shouldn't get any blow on AC I believe.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Arc blow really pees me off when doing some jobs with an inverter. Moving over to the oil cooled when it's available ends up being the best solution!

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Super 6 rods at less than a tenner a box aren't bad either. Not great, but not bad.

quite good at stirring paint i find

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

Recently been using bohler primafixe which are very nice indeed, If I remember I think I paid about 20 for the sleeve. Unless you are going to be burning lots of electrodes it could be worth laying the added extra and end up with a really decent electrode.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I've been using some INE rods just now at work, they seem pretty decent.

 

[zeppelin builder]

Was in a tea hut with various welders discussing rods one break , the old codger in the corner piped up ay lad the best rods a fishin rod lol

 

[olek]

What are the best value for money stick welding rods? Looking at buying some to make a welding table, i don't want to buy cheap and nasty but also don't want to spend to much on them,
Also where is the best place to buy them, any good online welding shops?
Cheers

I buy Lincoln OMNIA, I like them, you need to wait a little to get the slag off sometime

There are also 6013 with a good amount of cellulose , they are good for dirty metal or very humid storage conditions

And 7014 or 7016 (I think) Basic electrodes with a good part of rutile, need no cooking to make strong joints (replacement for 7018 when no way to cook)

Esab have a high reputation but I did not find them at a low price

For the 7018 I buy Lincoln 7018-1

I am in France, but I find a place where to buy the Lincoln at a fair price , it is worth comparing.

 

[olek]

Think a lot of it is down to preference once you find an electrode that you weld nicely with you tend to stick with it! But cheap 6013 in my experience suffer with arc blow, porosity/worm holes. With the likes of bohler, murex oerlikon I know I can light up put the arc where I want it, and run a decent bead in all postions. I also find the higher quality electrode can be used easier when in a jam, using them outside there A range, and with less than ideal rod angles etc

6013 are used for gas pipe indoor here in France (relatively small pipes) so I doubt thy have as much trouble than you state, never seen porosity anyway, just more slag than many others

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

6013 are used for gas pipe indoor here in France (relatively small pipes) so I doubt thy have as much trouble than you state, never seen porosity anyway, just more slag than many others

I'd imagine that you're using a decent branded 6013 for any sort of pipe! As for my post you buy cheap crap you're more likely to get those problems!

 

[olek]

I'd imagine that you're using a decent branded 6013 for any sort of pipe! As for my post you buy cheap crap you're more likely to get those problems!

Yes , I did not notice you write "cheap 6013" , I noticed that the 6013 have a poor reputation generally speaking , but originally they where intended for fast welding of thin steel sheets. The specific training for gas pipe I did not follow (I am not pro welder) , but I heard it is a "drop by drop" method.(may be some sort of whip and pause) . Regards

 

[zeppelin builder]

gas installations in buildings ie socket welds (fillets) ESAB ok 46 2 passes
but welds full pen up to 6 inch ESAB NU5
6013 great rod for welding in bad access you can bend it and the flux wont fall off


the best 6013 is BOHLER OHV

 

[Kent]

gas installations in buildings ie socket welds (fillets) ESAB ok 46 2 passes
but welds full pen up to 6 inch ESAB NU5
6013 great rod for welding in bad access you can bend it and the flux wont fall off


the best 6013 is BOHLER OHV

Nu5 are 6011 though, is that not a typo?

 

[Kent]

I would go get a box of murex vodex (the pink rod) store them in the house and you will be able to do most things. Failing that has nobody got a few they might donate locally (I am forever giving part boxes away here)

 

[zeppelin builder]

Nu5 are 6011 though, is that not a typo?

that is correct ,just saying thats what in scotland gets used bringing gas into a building ,for the butt welds if there is any ,i believe the spec in england is a lot lower lots of buildings fitted out with screwed risers not socket welds

 

[olek]

gas installations in buildings ie socket welds (fillets) ESAB ok 46 2 passes
but welds full pen up to 6 inch ESAB NU5
6013 great rod for welding in bad access you can bend it and the flux wont fall off


the best 6013 is BOHLER OHV

Not very common, but I find those rods at an industrial equipment provider, they are more expensive than the Esab.

You mean weld full Open (open root) with 6011 on AC ? sound logical, I do not imagine 6013 for open root (?) ; I did not get socket welds (fillets) did check to see sketches, and yippie I did understand !
No need to be welding "with drops"(cooling) with those type of weld, unless the pipes are really thin and heat sensitive . You did that sort of weld with stick ?

Regards

 

[zeppelin builder]

vive la vieille alliance

oui mon frere 6011 and 6013 can both be used on ac ,our procedures for SGN would be 6013 on dc negative fillets ,flanges, socket welds
. butt welds (open root} 6011 dc electrode negative for root uphill/then change polarity to positve for fill/ cap runs set up is 2.5 gap root with 2.5 6011 at 52 amperes uphill travel , fill and cap 3.25 electrode at 74 amperes travelling downward this for pipe up to 125 mm diameter

 

[olek]

Nice pics captain !

So those are 6011 DC ? they run with little amps, really, 3.2 74 downward, really ..do you push with arc force at high setting then ? How thick is the tube ? you do a little whip and pause or similar for the root ? I never used those rods (why not 6010 BTW?) , noticed their aspect, They have thin or little slag, is not it ? (that is why you do not switch to 6013 after the root ?)

Questions, questions best regards and alleluya (my aunt's garden is smaller than my uncle automobile great to write in English ! )

No need to clean more the inside ? those are radio tested or with another process ?

 

[olek]

Hi , I wanted to ask : is dragging root pass on fillet weld prone to obtain slag inclusions (may be dragging with 3.2 mm electrode could work but not with 2.5 ?)

Dragging means using arc force at all time or the arc can be maintained long enough with a stronger inclination ? I had little success with all time dragging but I like to feel the base metal from time to time just to be sure of my distance.

Also a speed question, I tend to follow the wear of the rod, and that gives me the speed, that mean I could use more or less angle (between 5 and 20 degrees for instance) to regulate my travel speed . I understand those are a little stupid questions, as I try to focus on keeping my puddle size and heat, but the angle give me a travel speed base to work from.

Regards

 

[zeppelin builder]

if you are welding lets say a 40 mm socket weld with 6013 on the horizontal your amps for 2.5 will be around the 80s make sure the socket and end of pipe are clean
push pipe fully in mark pipe and pull it back out 2or 3mm itts called( thermal gap ) tack pipe ,do no1 run quickly now making sure it bites into the corner and is small and no slag holes in , now do run no2 on top building up ,and leaving a weld deposit with an even profile

what machine are you using ac or dc , the arc force settings if too high with 6013 will give lots of spatter and harsh arc, for 6013 try the 2.5 in the 75 to 90 range and the 3.25 in the 95 to 125 all depends what position

to answer your question yes you could use 6010 for butt welds but only if procedure /client accepts

6010 dont work on ac a 6011 is for ac or dc the old oilcooled ac welders have a choice of ocv usualy 50 or 80 for 6011 use 80v output

not all dc machines will burn 6010 it has to be a drooping current some inverters wont even hold an arc even with arc force ,get a machine thats got cellulosic
capability the industrial deisel generator welders are most suited, open root needs just a small up open keyhole and back down onto cold metal more of a bouncing motion you will hear the arc roaring ,if its tight gap you can just about push and drag it up without bouncing you will need current up of course current wil need up or down depending on gap preperation,pipe thickness position you weld in dont know the standards in france but in scotland it would be full visual inspection ,with magnetic particle (mpi)on every fillet and 10per cent x ray on butt welds
nitrogen leak down test on completion witnessed by client

 

[olek]

Thank you commandant, yes it explains me well.

I hopefully have a good DC 200A inverter with high 108V OCV that gives 6010 capability, so when needed I can use them.

I have been surprised to read that high OCV on the old type welding machines make the arc more buttery than low ocv .
Why is it ? (my guess is that strong ocv do allow less contrast in amps between short and long arc, but I admit not understanding very well the electricity part of the process)

ocv is used as is the "arc force" is not it (or arc force try to mimic that type of regulation)
For the horizontal socket weld, I understand the "thermal gap", thanks for the tip, now it sound easier to drag lightly the stick all around , but something escapes me : as arc force add some amps, if I am dragging, (touching the base metal) I suppose I am using arc force, so my initial amps settings may be lower than the one really provided .
Is it possible , or is only the voltage rise that strengthen the arc, allowing to express more amps ?
I dont even understand if for instance when I regulate at 100A I will have max 100A, or do I have 100A till the voltage lowers under 20V (and the arc begins to be too tight)

It very possibly depends of the welder so I understand there is no precise answer, but while learning I am annoyed with arc force and was said to put it at 20% or 10% , then it does not disturb the arc, I mean, I feel I have some control on heat while with arc force it is exaggerated. it get too strong when I tighten.with 7018 also 20% is the max,I do not stick too often
May be I will need to strengthen the arc to weold on high carbon steel, or indeed for open root

Have a nice evening. All the best

PS I did not new magnetic particle inspection, that is amazing
Find that :

6011 are preferred by customers, or they ask you 6011 and AC most of the time ?

flowers !