Boxing a fireplace in preparation for fitting a stove

[RaceDiagnostics]

What is the deal with using a bare chimney for wood burning stoves? I assume you'd need a fair length of flue pipe shoved up the chimney to generate sufficient draw and I know you should fit a flue liner but I might change my mind and revert to open fireplace if the stove is too troublesome.

If I have to fit a flue liner, can that be done from down here or does it have to be installed from the roof?

I found this useful resource covering the advantages of using a flue.

Infographic: What is a chimney liner and do I need it?

A chimney liner slides into the chimney and provides smooth passage for smoke and gases. Usually best to have one...

www.stovefitterswarehouse.co.uk

 

[Blobber]

I know what you mean, I don't really like the surround either, just a question of how far I go. To think that someone must have ripped out a beautiful Victorian fireplace to put this one in at some point in the 50's.


I am pretty sure the tiles are on a prefabricated slab, so that would mean surround and a bit of panelling out first and plastering the wals where the hidden fixings are afterwards. A step too far right now given the new oak flooring and kitchen are due to show up soon.

View attachment 318347

Ooh thats not a looker is it, the white surround isnt too bad but if it were mine the tiles would be off tonight! you may find there is a decent sized opening once you start chopping, a smoke bomb to see how the chimney draws is easy but its well worth dropping a liner down for peace of mind and a reliable draw

 

[Blobber]

What is the deal with using a bare chimney for wood burning stoves? I assume you'd need a fair length of flue pipe shoved up the chimney to generate sufficient draw and I know you should fit a flue liner but I might change my mind and revert to open fireplace if the stove is too troublesome.

If I have to fit a flue liner, can that be done from down here or does it have to be installed from the roof?

Trouble is open fires are drafty and you loose a lot of heat I found, you need quite a small hole 6-8 inches all the way up the chimney to get a nice draw and keep the flue gasses warm for a stove but its an easy job to put a liner in and well worth doing

 

[gaz1]

I'd say a stove is less troublesome than an open fire, it's also way more efficient.
A flue liner needs to be fitted if there's any doubt as to the integrity of the existing chimney but it's always a good idea to fit one anyway.
It's a two-person job, either one on the roof feeding it down while the other pulls it or one on the roof pulling it up while the other feeds and manipulates it.
We did ours pulling it up. I made up a makeshift cone which I duct-taped to the end of the liner, my mate got up on the roof and dropped a weighted rope down which I then tied to the cone. He heaved away up top while I manipulated and pushed it from below.
It was surprisingly easy.

there is advantages over a stove with an open fire

as the chimney is a heat store and would warm the upstairs bedroom with the chimney

yes it was wasteful to a degree as you had to have fresh air from else where not always under or near the fire

drafts was usually under the doors

wood stove same thing

youve lost your heat store only warming the one room

lost heat normally when you need the toilet or food breaks

fire back boilers in fire places had there place when pluged into the hot water cylinder or central heating system as the coals did there job well whilst the fire was lit

 

[S-Rail]

you will more than likely find that the opening is 4 foot plus wide and 3 plus high , it was standard practice with red brick terrace / Victorian houses that the fireplace was built over size , then closed down to suit needs .

your bang on the money ref the tile surround , the tiles will be mounted to a concrete casting with rebar in , they were made off site and brought in , cemented on with a few tie wires holding it back until set .

the rubble you found when you took the fire back out is just infill , nothing more ,

you will without doubt have a very large opening behind it all .

my only words of advice is check out the regs reference clearance around the stove , not just behind , but all the way round .

it is not necessarily needed but I would advise filling around the liner with leeka as it will create a thermal mass and helps the flue warm up quicker and become more efficient is its drawing flue gases . Also prevents the chance of the flue getting damaged when being rodded / serviced as it will move around in the flue . Doesn’t cost alot but worth doing

 

[gaz1]

there also bloody heavy as well

 

[Screwdriver]

I'd say a stove is less troublesome than an open fire, it's also way more efficient.
A flue liner needs to be fitted if there's any doubt as to the integrity of the existing chimney but it's always a good idea to fit one anyway.
It's a two-person job, either one on the roof feeding it down while the other pulls it or one on the roof pulling it up while the other feeds and manipulates it.
We did ours pulling it up. I made up a makeshift cone which I duct-taped to the end of the liner, my mate got up on the roof and dropped a weighted rope down which I then tied to the cone. He heaved away up top while I manipulated and pushed it from below.
It was surprisingly easy.

All I'm going to get is radiant heat in this draughty pile. Built in the 1890's it has a suspended floor and bare floorboards. The more I heat it up, the more draught I get. The walls are solid brick.

So to combat this I bought an RG500, two RS250's a brace of RD350's etc.

Global warming can't come soon enough!

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

my only words of advice is check out the regs reference clearance around the stove , not just behind , but all the way round .

I looked into that, the installation manual only has specs for distance to combustibles and no limit for non combustibles. And of course inset stoves are in direct contact with the sides/back.

I'll have plenty space below/back/above but just a few cm each side. More would be better but it will also not be fully set back.

Don't have the time to make it into a bigger job right now but may do it later.

Here is also some more info on minimum clearances.

What air gap around do I need to leave around a wood burning stove

Stoves require air gaps around them (sides, rear, top) so the heat can make it into the room. Air gaps are not a safety issue if there are no combustible materials present. Air gaps are sometimes specified in stove instruction manuals but often are not. Sometimes they are “recommended”

www.stovefitterswarehouse.co.uk

 

[julianf]

Once I have the stove I'll get a better feel for the positioning. Keeping 300mm to the front of the hearth will put the flue close to central I think.

Will take this to the scrap yard and get a few quid back, 7 kg. It's very thick walled.

View attachment 318245


I had planned to put in a 1500x500mm polished slate hearth, but I couldn't get a quote for less than £350 today, last one I bought was about £100, but that was 25 years ago.

Will just tile the hearth with slate tiles instead.

Personally if it were mine, and, indeed, what I have done to mine -

Hack out all the backfill, and you should end up with a clean square hole. Don't bother loading it up with anything then. Just finish it cleanly.

Slate -

If you can be bothered with the trouble, buy a snooker table off eBay. I got a full size (12x6 iirc) for £28 winning bid. All the hearths at ours are slate..


Line the flue. Sweep it well and then line it. A DIY install can be done off a ladder in most cases and signed off by building control for a lot less than the cost of some scaffold. It's not a hard job. You get kits off eBay.

Doc j has all the info you need.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

I'm planning to fit a flue, it's due to be here on Thursday. I called two sweeps this afternoon, both said they could fit me in next year. If I can't find one tomorrow I'll buy a brush and do it myself.

Only decided to fit a stove a couple of days ago and up against it on time as I want to get it finished before the kitchen and flooring turns up.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Just for fun, here is one I did back in 2008 in my last house, it was a nice easy job.

It definately didn't meet the regs, as the flue went into a 5 inch liner, but no problem as I removed it when I sold the house.

Eventually I will install this one here in the new house, its just sitting there for the time being.

This fireplace has also well and trully been hacked about

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Slate -

If you can be bothered with the trouble, buy a snooker table off eBay. I got a full size (12x6 iirc) for £28 winning bid. All the hearths at ours are slate..

I ended up buying four 60x60x2cm giant porcelain tiles that sort of look like slate for about £45 today, cutting them will be fun though.

 

[JimmyS]

I would take all that crap out back to the original fire opening and go from there as well - that's what I ended up having to do but some halfwit had taken to the lintel with a hammer so had to put in a new one.

I've got a petrol stihl saw if you need something to cut the slabs.

 

[Wozzaaah]

All I'm going to get is radiant heat in this draughty pile. Built in the 1890's it has a suspended floor and bare floorboards. The more I heat it up, the more draught I get. The walls are solid brick.

So to combat this I bought an RG500, two RS250's a brace of RD350's etc.

Global warming can't come soon enough!

Ours is also 1890s. We're sat in front of our stove and it really does kick out a lot of heat even though it's only a small one.

 

[Wozzaaah]

I'm planning to fit a flue, it's due to be here on Thursday. I called two sweeps this afternoon, both said they could fit me in next year. If I can't find one tomorrow I'll buy a brush and do it myself.

Only decided to fit a stove a couple of days ago and up against it on time as I want to get it finished before the kitchen and flooring turns up.

I was lucky to have a fearless mate who was happy to go up on the roof using a roof ladder.

 

[S-Rail]

I looked into that, the installation manual only has specs for distance to combustibles and no limit for non combustibles. And of course inset stoves are in direct contact with the sides/back.

I'll have plenty space below/back/above but just a few cm each side. More would be better but it will also not be fully set back.

The only reason I mentioned clearance , is that whilst inbuilt stoves like jet master as designed to be in contact with the surrounding masonary , free standing may have a min or not , but it is also down to the surrounding masonary / tiles etc . As you will be subjecting them to a constant of 200 plus for long periods

the likes of brick can and will spald and tiles can and may end up splitting / fracturing at that closer proximity .

im not trying to nit pick , just trying to prevent you cussing later .
I left school and worked for a firm fitting stoves for 4 years , and you would be surprised the damage that the radial heat can cause .

I have 6 inch behind mine and a single skin of bricks behind , with a stair case behind that , and the wall gets very warm , which is great for indirect heating , but if it were closer , working cm’s there would be a lot of damage being done to the masonary with the expansion and contraction of heat .

even using fire rated cement or tile adhesive would be precarious at such proximities .

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Yes, I've been reading similar as you say, so I bought a box of baby fire bricks today and will line with those. If I have problems when running and when I have more time I'll rip out the tile frontage and open up the recess to a bigger size.

 

[OJCar]

OP being in Scotland , it is Section 3 of the Scottish Building Regs that applies
https://www.gov.scot/policies/building-standards/monitoring-improving-building-regulations/

That green stove looks lovely.
I'm watching with interest as I have a couple of stoves I mean to get around to fitting sometime.

 

[GraemeVW]

I have only very quickly skimmed this, but this is what I do for a living.
If you put a list of any questions you have I will answer them, easier than trying to go through the thread and pick out everything that needs addressing.

A few quick points.
Cement board to line the chamber
Steel closure plate (not cement board)
Don't come out the back onto a 90!!
Nothing combustable in the chamber (including rawl plugs)
6" of constructional hearth (for most stoves)
Fit the best liner (I can talk more about no liners if you want)
Carbon monoxide alarm up by the ceiling.

 

[RaceDiagnostics]

Hi Greame, thanks for that offer, all is clear at this point. My hearth is about 3 feet deep concrete on stone so I'm well in spec there.

Just been reading the Scottish regs on clearance to the side, as I'm going to use fire bricks to line, I'm also good there. The Scottish regs say no minimum distance.