CE Marking / BS EN 1090

[Shox Dr]

CE Marking (and ISO9001) cost us in the region of 50 grand to implement (Execution Class 3). It costs 10 grand a year to maintain.
90% of our customers are big names in the construction industry and know all about CE Marking. We would potentially have lost 90% of our work overnight if we had not obtained the accreditation.

I know for a fact there are a multitude of fabrication companies who have not bothered to get it and are still producing fabricated structural steelwork. They are breaking the law and the director risks a prison sentence.

Enforcement? Totally non existent. There was the thought in the fab world that they would go after one or two of the big fabricators, find something, and make an example of them to scare the others into complying. Nah. Nowt.

Unfortunately we live in a reactive world these days. So until something falls down no one is interested.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

CE Marking (and ISO9001) cost us in the region of 50 grand to implement (Execution Class 3). It costs 10 grand a year to maintain.
90% of our customers are big names in the construction industry and know all about CE Marking. We would potentially have lost 90% of our work overnight if we had not obtained the accreditation.

I know for a fact there are a multitude of fabrication companies who have not bothered to get it and are still producing fabricated structural steelwork. They are breaking the law and the director risks a prison sentence.

Enforcement? Totally non existent. There was the thought in the fab world that they would go after one or two of the big fabricators, find something, and make an example of them to scare the others into complying. Nah. Nowt.

It’s a very frustrating process, although I have lately heard of a few companies having visits from trading standards, but I’m not sure if that’s from others being fed up and shopping them in.
I just don’t understand how the notified bodies aren’t picking up on people not following the stands correctly either, the level of auditing varies vastly!
Also, it should be self policing due to insurance companies not insuring these works, but I guess that’s another lack of knowledge issue.

 

[Welderpaul]

It’s a very frustrating process, although I have lately heard of a few companies having visits from trading standards, but I’m not sure if that’s from others being fed up and shopping them in.
I just don’t understand how the notified bodies aren’t picking up on people not following the stands correctly either, the level of auditing varies vastly!
Also, it should be self policing due to insurance companies not insuring these works, but I guess that’s another lack of knowledge issue.

I've seen first hand the difference in auditing standards. The first auditer we had just 'waved us through' which was a disapointment given how much effort we had put in. The fella we have now goes to the far end of a fart with everything, which is good. He's ex industry so no pulling the wool over his eyes.

We always send off the DoP's and CE Certs at the end of a project (As long as the bill has been paid), but i've never been chased to send them.

If the insurers were chasing the construction companies for the certs before handover, the construction co's would be hanging out of their arses wanting the certs issuing to make sure handover went through.

I'm sure it has gone a long way to improving the standards of fabrication, and cut a few of the cowboys out but might as well be a voluntary scheme.

 

[Welderpaul]

It’s a very frustrating process, although I have lately heard of a few companies having visits from trading standards, but I’m not sure if that’s from others being fed up and shopping them in.
I just don’t understand how the notified bodies aren’t picking up on people not following the stands correctly either, the level of auditing varies vastly!
Also, it should be self policing due to insurance companies not insuring these works, but I guess that’s another lack of knowledge issue.

I've seen first hand the difference in auditing standards. The first auditer we had just 'waved us through' which was a disapointment given how much effort we had put in. The fella we have now goes to the far end of a fart with everything, which is good. He's ex industry so no pulling the wool over his eyes.

We always send off the DoP's and CE Certs at the end of a project (As long as the bill has been paid), but i've never been chased to send them.

If the insurers were chasing the construction companies for the certs before handover, the construction co's would be hanging out of their arses wanting the certs issuing to make sure handover went through.

I'm sure it has gone a long way to improving the standards of fabrication, and cut a few of the cowboys out but might as well be a voluntary scheme.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

Hi all, I'm not likely to need this but is there a download for the standard that states what is and isn't covered under each exc class?

 

[Brad93]

Hi all, I'm not likely to need this but is there a download for the standard that states what is and isn't covered under each exc class?

No, you'd have to buy the complete standard. Anyhow it is somewhat vague unless your an expert on 1090 what is covered under each class. It goes off the number of floors a building has and stuff. EXC3 covers up to 15 floors iirc.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Hi all, I'm not likely to need this but is there a download for the standard that states what is and isn't covered under each exc class?

If you are still interested in this then send me a DM

 

[davidjohnperry]

This is interesting you learn new things always I've been doing this for just over 4 years now I was told by a weld fab the exc numbers means how tidy it's got to look never once mentioned about how it was fabd or welded just how clean it had to be

 

[Mid Wales welder]

This is interesting you learn new things always I've been doing this for just over 4 years now I was told by a weld fab the exc numbers means how tidy it's got to look never once mentioned about how it was fabd or welded just how clean it had to be

 

[Welderpaul]

This is interesting you learn new things always I've been doing this for just over 4 years now I was told by a weld fab the exc numbers means how tidy it's got to look never once mentioned about how it was fabd or welded just how clean it had to be

He’s talking out of his bottom.

 

[davidjohnperry]

To be fair probably is but I do it day in and day out and there is just such lack of information and training but thanks to you guys I learn and develop

 

[HughF]

To be fair probably is but I do it day in and day out and there is just such lack of information and training but thanks to you guys I learn and develop

Was it a big exercise to go through (1090) at your place pal?

 

[davidjohnperry]

I don't know mate. I think we do the bare minimum to scrap through but as I said there is such a lack of communication unless something goes wrong or other stuff they just come round give me a piece of paper say tool box talk sign here and walk off.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

There is still a massive lack of knowledge/information and a lot of misunderstanding around EN 1090.
Also varying levels of compliance needed depending who your customers are and who you get audited by.

 

[mtt.tr]

i dont get this, this was first posted in 2013 and still no obvious answers its crazy.

i see and know a few people that weld steels for domestic sites some do inhouse fab others are onsite, am i not correct in thinking the ones that weld steels in a workshop for residential houses should be registered under the 1090? if not how do they get away with it and why would you take the chance

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Yo

i dont get this, this was first posted in 2013 and still no obvious answers its crazy.

i see and know a few people that weld steels for domestic sites some do inhouse fab others are onsite, am i not correct in thinking the ones that weld steels in a workshop for residential houses should be registered under the 1090? if not how do they get away with it and why would you take the chance

You would be correct yes. They get away with it because there isn’t really anyone policing it properly.

 

[mtt.tr]

Yo


You would be correct yes. They get away with it because there isn’t really anyone policing it properly.

It annoys as the guys doing it properly get punished like anything. Who said playing it straight pays. !!!!!

Same for my day job doing carpentry and building im im diligent and honest. As soon as i do subbie work im surrounded by chancers.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

I wouldn’t say the guys doing properly get punished, but it’s very annoying for them having spent in some cases a lot of money when the competitor who hasn’t gone through it wins the job on price.
That’s where it can be self policing sometimes though.
When we take a company through CE marking we make it as simple as possible and therefor make it cheaper to comply also.

 

[Revs1972]

I use half a dozen or so companies to make my steelwork for me.
A couple are not CE and I only use them for anything non structural.
Anything structural is done by min EX class 2 companies. They are pretty good cost wise. Certainly cheaper than me setting up my own fabrication company and getting everything CE ready that’s for sure.
No ones ever asked for it, and I’m pretty sure my competition don’t have it, but I am cheaper than them usually. I just like knowing that if anything did happen, i’m Safe in the knowledge that I can prove everything is in order and done by the book.
H&S are taking a closer look at the sector I work in ( not before time IMO) and things are getting tighter on sites, and at some point someone’s going to realise what it’s about. When I’ve mentioned CE before, I have had some funny looks

 

[wyn]

Is the insurance industry up to speed with this. If it's not built to 1090 then it can't be insured ?