CE Marking / BS EN 1090

[Mid Wales welder]

Oh my god, that is absolutely shocking!! Stuff like this really peas me off! How is it possible that stuff like this is still being made

 

[WorkshopChris]

That is the problem with all this CE Bs en 1090 people spending huge amounts on certification and setting up processes, but there is not a lot from stopping jobs like this from ending up on sites.
Lowest price/Quality will always find a way through.
You can have all the tractability in the world but if building control are not out on the ground inspecting monitoring and insisting on the paperwork to back the job up just how much of this stuff is out there, I know i have seen it.
Personally i do not think it will stop till the insurance companies start asking more questions before they will insure the buildings.

 

[Mee]

Problem is the company we work for wouldnt hand over any certificate if we ask.i did a forklift driver course and they keep any paperwork so it cant benefit us if we leave.
cheers

If the company pay for it then it remains their intellectual property in law.

You can have all the tractability in the world but if building control are not out on the ground inspecting monitoring and insisting on the paperwork to back the job up just how much of this stuff is out there, I know i have seen it.

Haven't we all Chris, but in most cases they rely on the site manager to sign it off and automatically assume he/she is qualified to deal with all the individual elements they sign off and know they aren't experienced enough to do so, but they have their piece of paper and a scapegoat, they will also state they only use approved and certified contractors and then want the cheapest price possible and not pay enough to cover the costs of certification and training.

 

[nickk]

Just received my certificates of compliance,pleased however a huge undertaking for me with just 1 employee.
How are other people finding the running of this process?

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Just received my certificates of compliance,pleased however a huge undertaking for me with just 1 employee.
How are other people finding the running of this process?

Well done Nick, should be all
Downhill from now on

 

[Brad93]

I've just heard from a friend who is dealing with Andy Spencer that they are moving the goalposts and allowing a 3G V Butt to cover all positions and fillets. In effect one coding to cover everything.

Does anyone know if this is correct?

 

[matt1978]

I've just heard from a friend who is dealing with Andy Spencer that they are moving the goalposts and allowing a 3G V Butt to cover all positions and fillets. In effect one coding to cover everything.

Does anyone know if this is correct?

Do you mean Andy Spence?

I know him well, last I saw him he did say the whole Norm was being reviewed with new interpretations being implemented. That must be one of them

 

[Brad93]

Yeah maybe? Provides a start to finish 1090 Certification service

 

[Mid Wales welder]

I've just heard from a friend who is dealing with Andy Spencer that they are moving the goalposts and allowing a 3G V Butt to cover all positions and fillets. In effect one coding to cover everything.

Does anyone know if this is correct?

Hmm not heard that one, kind of makes sense but I would imagine you would have to do a suplimentry Fillet weld to go with it. Also that would only cover plate not pipe, unless they will change that as well maybe?!

 

[Brad93]

Well this is the conversation I was having. Surely you still need to have a procedure for the joint you are doing or are they going to the AWS system of an unlimited V Butt with backing bar? Which in my opinion is not difficult at all. Americans have barely heard of a 7018 open root unless they are in the offshore industry.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Well this is the conversation I was having. Surely you still need to have a procedure for the joint you are doing or are they going to the AWS system of an unlimited V Butt with backing bar? Which in my opinion is not difficult at all. Americans have barely heard of a 7018 open root unless they are in the offshore industry.

Yes I can't see how procedures could go like that because that's the whole point of a procedure. But then if they are talking about 9606 then it only takes two tests (H-LO45 & PH) to be pretty much fully covered for all positions (accept vert down) anyway.
Surely this addition would be in new 15614-1: 2017?
Be interesting to see where it goes.

 

[Brad93]

Yes I can't see how procedures could go like that because that's the whole point of a procedure. But then if they are talking about 9606 then it only takes two tests (H-LO45 & PH) to be pretty much fully covered for all positions (accept vert down) anyway.
Surely this addition would be in new 15614-1: 2017?
Be interesting to see where it goes.

Excuse my ignorance I can never remember the ISO positions. Would that be a 6G and a vertical fillet? I would think a 6G and 5F would do it?
Only thing is, would you have to do an open root with GMAW? I've done plenty in the flat and v. Down with a gap but never V. Up.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Excuse my ignorance I can never remember the ISO positions. Would that be a 6G and a vertical fillet? I would think a 6G and 5F would do it?
Only thing is, would you have to do an open root with GMAW? I've done plenty in the flat and v. Down with a gap but never V. Up.

Yes 6G and PH is vertical up on a pipe to plate with the pipe on the horizontal access. Can test whatever you like really within reason, but it's just all about what coverage you get. Had a few passes with 6013 v up but not many people do it I find. Usually use 7018 with backing or stove with 6010/11. If you use GMAW then you are only covered for that root.

 

[Brad93]

Right I see. Well I've never attempted a 6013 v up never seen the point of using a general purpose consumable for that type of stuff. Done lots of 7016 & 7018 roots.

With a open root GMAW I've always wondered if nitrogen embrittlement was an issue on the backside which is unshielded?
Would you do the 3G root at about 90-100A dip transfer?

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Right I see. Well I've never attempted a 6013 v up never seen the point of using a general purpose consumable for that type of stuff. Done lots of 7016 & 7018 roots.

With a open root GMAW I've always wondered if nitrogen embrittlement was an issue on the backside which is unshielded?
Would you do the 3G root at about 90-100A dip transfer?

I've only ever really delt with people wanting to 6013 open root on 4872-1 and even then it's rare.
Yes that's something I wouldn't mind testing, but don't really get a chance. I know that post heat treatment can help with that and I guess a decent ore heat too.
90-100A sounds good, but it really all depends on your prep as the smallest differences in root gap/face can change that.

 

[Brad93]

Looking at the new 15614:2017 what is this Level 1 and Level 2 thing about. Still waiting for the standard to turn up at work to have a read through.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Looking at the new 15614:2017 what is this Level 1 and Level 2 thing about. Still waiting for the standard to turn up at work to have a read through.

From what I gather so far, it's to bring it inline with ASME IX. So level 1 will like basic ASME IX and level 2 will be pretty much as the standard is now. I must admit as I have been doing the UT I said to myself I wouldn't even look at the new standard until that was over, had enough to fill my brain with lol. I'm trying to get to s semina at TWI maybe and I will have a proper look over the standard for when it needs to be fully implemented.
The lab we used for procedure testing have basically said nothing will change unless someone specifically states they want level 1.

 

[Brad93]

So rather than testing your Procesure to EN standard and ASME you could just go for level 2?

Is it backwards compatible with ASME though?

Waiting for the standard at work to come through now and the latest revision of ASME so will look over them when they arrive.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

So rather than testing your Procesure to EN standard and ASME you could just go for level 2?

Is it backwards compatible with ASME though?

Waiting for the standard at work to come through now and the latest revision of ASME so will look over them when they arrive.

Hmm don't think it works like to be honest, they aren't interchangeable. Although I think there is a clause in ASME that a company could use 15614 instead (because the testing is more in depth) but the customer would have to agree. Something like that anyway lol, I don't really deal ASME that much and hate going through it because it's just so big and clumsy to navigate.
I think it would make sense to be used for exc class 2 work in en1090 and may be used inplace of ASME in some cases. But I really have know idea lol.

 

[Dimitri De Spiegeleer]

EN 1090 is for construction work, ASME IX is a boiler and pressure vessel code...Not really interchangeable.

Anyway, came here to see if what I heard is correct: Apparently, there are not many welding coordinators in the UK. Either they are good, and they serve dozens of companies (meaning they cannot spend a lot of time with each company), or they are not good, and, well, then there aren't many reasons to stay with them apart from lack of alternatives.

So, can anyone confirm this, is there a large need for RWC's in the UK?