Celica Gen 7 restoration.

[Ross365]

I may have to think about pushing a needle scaler up the wanted list. I wonder how well they work on a brake disc which has rust around the outer edge and the odd spot in the braking area? I've just bought two new rear discs for my old 620 saloon which were looking a bit tired.

 

[Jim881]

I may have to think about pushing a needle scaler up the wanted list. I wonder how well they work on a brake disc which has rust around the outer edge and the odd spot in the braking area? I've just bought two new rear discs for my old 620 saloon which were looking a bit tired.

It would be perfect mate. Clean them up a treat. I went the the Chicago pneumatic one. Doesn't drop in power at all with a 50ltr 9.5cfm compressor.

 

[Ross365]

Yes, I spotted you had bought the Chicago one. It looks like Sealey are one of the competitors but (sadly) Sealey stuff is not as good as it used to be. I have a Sealey trolley jack bought about 40 years ago, which is like new, but that was made in Japan, and their stuff is all out of China now. My compressor is 50L and about the same cfm and it's on wheel so easy to move around. I have not put an action plan together for this year for the two cars; both got through their last MoT's with no advisories. The Gen 7 is 20 years old this year but the Rover is 24; have no plans to pension off either car. Both cars have had most of their floors cleaned up painted, so there may be odd spots to look at but nothing major. I suspect the shocks on the Rover are getting tired. Some parts for that car are getting just a bit harder to find, unless you want to go in to the Honda dealers carrying bags of gold (the Rover 600 is very closely based on the Honda Accord).

 

[Jim881]

Paint arrived over the weekend.

Can I ask what sort of prep you guys have been doing prior to painting?
I will have done the rust removal and keyed the surface but what about cleaning it up?
Wash with water?, degrease?, salt removal spray?, just leaving phosphoric acid on?
I am a little unsure which way to go.

 

[Ross365]

As you have put phosphoric on, I would go direct on to that. Otherwise, I think I would have said wipe down with your thinner, and I guess you could try that in a small area and see if it removes much dirt? I have never used salt remover as I can keep the Gen7 off the road if salt has been used, and the question about using a salt remover after using phosphoric is a bit of an unknown. I think the salt removal products are water-based solutions of amines (not sure).

I just put in an order for the Chicago needle scaler . It was approved by the "Birthday Appropriations" committee.

 

[Jim881]

As you have put phosphoric on, I would go direct on to that. Otherwise, I think I would have said wipe down with your thinner, and I guess you could try that in a small area and see if it removes much dirt? I have never used salt remover as I can keep the Gen7 off the road if salt has been used, and the question about using a salt remover after using phosphoric is a bit of an unknown. I think the salt removal products are water-based solutions of amines (not sure).

I just put in an order for the Chicago needle scaler . It was approved by the "Birthday Appropriations" committee.

Cheers mate. Thinners is a good idea!!! Enjoy you pressie. I have shown a few mates what it can do and they all want to borrow it now

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I have shown a few mates what it can do and they all want to borrow it now

Schoolboy error.

 

[Ross365]

Enjoy you pressie. I have shown a few mates what it can do and they all want to borrow it now

Mmm, as it's one of things you won't use all the time, it's very vulnerable to that problem! During the time you've had it, can you detect wear on the needles?

 

[atomant48]

I just put in an order for the Chicago needle scaler . It was approved by the "Birthday Appropriations" committee.

any links to what you decided on? Seems to be a few different ones out there. Seems like something I need too

 

[Ross365]

any links to what you decided on? Seems to be a few different ones out there. Seems like something I need too

The one Jim's been using and I've just ordered is this one by Chicago https://www.airsupplies.co.uk/air-t...MI2cKqq9TG9gIViZntCh1g8wodEAQYASABEgIxqvD_BwE

I think that link is about the best price you'll find for that model; I think it was about £20 more on ebay.

 

[Dcal]

Paint arrived over the weekend.

Can I ask what sort of prep you guys have been doing prior to painting?
I will have done the rust removal and keyed the surface but what about cleaning it up?
Wash with water?, degrease?, salt removal spray?, just leaving phosphoric acid on?
I am a little unsure which way to go.

View attachment 337585

What condition was the metal surface in?
I would go with what Jotun recommends in their TDS and Application Guides.

What you do depends on what kit you have and how much bother you are prepared to go to.
If the surface was very rusty and pitted there will be some salt residue on the pits. Without doing a salt test you are really only guessing about how much, however epoxy mastics are quite tolerant of salt levels and can cope with fairly high levels.

Can you pressure wash it?
If you want, you could apply a salt remover and them pressure wash it off, but I'd be worried about water creeping into all the nicely exposed seams so it could do more harm than good.
Once water is in a tight gap it is almost impossible to get out.
If the seams have already been exposed to salt and water I would just live with it and seal the seams with paint, seam sealer and wax to exclude the oxygen and control further corrosion that way.
I’m not suggesting you don’t clean the underside of the car, just do it before you remove all the coatings and seam sealer.

Clean as much muck and dirt off with detergent cleaners, dry and clean again with panel wipe.
You need a clean contaminate free surface to give "any" coating a chance to work.

Then IMHO the best to least best options are-
Grit blast to SA2.5 - not easy but will give you a great surface to apply the epoxy mastic. No need to panel wipe after blasting because it’s not necessary, also if it's done right the blasted surfaces will shred the rags and leave lots of fibres.
Remove all loose rust with wire brushes in an angle grinder or drill then Bristle Blast. Again probably no need to panel wipe just blow down with compressed air and on with the epoxy mastic.
Remove all loose rust and coatings with a wire brush in an angle grinder or drill and needle gun exposed metal work and sand any remaining copatings with 120 or 180 grit paper. Clean with panel wipe and apply epoxy mastic.
Remove all loose rust and coatings with a wire brush in an angle grinder or drill. Sand exposed metal with DA sander and 60 or 80 grit and 120 or 180 on any coatings. Panel wipe and apply epoxy mastic.
Remove as much loose rust and coatings as possible by hand and rough the area with 80 or 100 paper, clean with panel wipe and apply epoxy mastic.
Give it a quick clean and apply epoxy mastic.

What you do not want to do is create a nice shiny, polished surface with a wire brush in a grinder and apply the coating to that. It will not stick well, however it will stick to almost anything else including well adhered rust.

 

[Jim881]

Mmm, as it's one of things you won't use all the time, it's very vulnerable to that problem! During the time you've had it, can you detect wear on the needles?

Hardly any mate. They've got a lot of life left in them. If they do start to round off you could just take a bench grinder, dremel to them.

 

[Jim881]

What condition was the metal surface in?
I would go with what Jotun recommends in their TDS and Application Guides.

What you do depends on what kit you have and how much bother you are prepared to go to.
If the surface was very rusty and pitted there will be some salt residue on the pits. Without doing a salt test you are really only guessing about how much, however epoxy mastics are quite tolerant of salt levels and can cope with fairly high levels.

Can you pressure wash it?
If you want, you could apply a salt remover and them pressure wash it off, but I'd be worried about water creeping into all the nicely exposed seams so it could do more harm than good.
Once water is in a tight gap it is almost impossible to get out.
If the seams have already been exposed to salt and water I would just live with it and seal the seams with paint, seam sealer and wax to exclude the oxygen and control further corrosion that way.
I’m not suggesting you don’t clean the underside of the car, just do it before you remove all the coatings and seam sealer.

Clean as much muck and dirt off with detergent cleaners, dry and clean again with panel wipe.
You need a clean contaminate free surface to give "any" coating a chance to work.

Then IMHO the best to least best options are-
Grit blast to SA2.5 - not easy but will give you a great surface to apply the epoxy mastic. No need to panel wipe after blasting because it’s not necessary, also if it's done right the blasted surfaces will shred the rags and leave lots of fibres.
Remove all loose rust with wire brushes in an angle grinder or drill then Bristle Blast. Again probably no need to panel wipe just blow down with compressed air and on with the epoxy mastic.
Remove all loose rust and coatings with a wire brush in an angle grinder or drill and needle gun exposed metal work and sand any remaining copatings with 120 or 180 grit paper. Clean with panel wipe and apply epoxy mastic.
Remove all loose rust and coatings with a wire brush in an angle grinder or drill. Sand exposed metal with DA sander and 60 or 80 grit and 120 or 180 on any coatings. Panel wipe and apply epoxy mastic.
Remove as much loose rust and coatings as possible by hand and rough the area with 80 or 100 paper, clean with panel wipe and apply epoxy mastic.
Give it a quick clean and apply epoxy mastic.

What you do not want to do is create a nice shiny, polished surface with a wire brush in a grinder and apply the coating to that. It will not stick well, however it will stick to almost anything else including well adhered rust.

This is the sort of standard it will be prepped to. It still needs to be keyed. I won't be using a pressure washer. I thought the idea of epxoy thinners would be a good as it will clean the surface down and not react the jotun.

 

[Dcal]

That looks the part, was it well sanded before you applied the phosphoric acid?
If not a good sanding now won’t hurt.

I tend to not use pre-treatments under the Jotun as they don't recommend them but I'm sure it will be fine.
Also I haven’t seen anything that reacts with the Jotun so I would use standard panel wipe as it dries quicker, is made for the job and it's cheaper.
An organic solvent won't do anything for removing salts, but I wouldn’t worry about that anyway.
However they will remove greases and oils which are probably a far bigger problem.

 

[Jim881]

That looks the part, was it well sanded before you applied the phosphoric acid?
If not a good sanding now won’t hurt.

I tend to not use pre-treatments under the Jotun as they don't recommend them but I'm sure it will be fine.
Also I haven’t seen anything that reacts with the Jotun so I would use standard panel wipe as it dries quicker, is made for the job and it's cheaper.
An organic solvent won't do anything for removing salts, but I wouldn’t worry about that anyway.
However they will remove greases and oils which are probably a far bigger problem.

It was wire wheel a lot mate. The rust is now minimal. I keep cleaning the phosphoric acid off as it bubbles the rusty bits and apply more if needed. My plan is to tackle the whole area with sandpaper prior to painting to key it nice and keyed forbthe paint.
I thought about panel wipes but because i have 5l of thinners I was going to utilise that if it will achieve similar prep results.

 

[Jim881]

Regarding panel wipe. Is it just IPA?
Was thinking is it worth just buying a 5l container and some lint free clothes rather that the pre impregnated wipes?

 

[Dcal]

If you have a da sander it will save a lot of work and give you a good finish for the primer. Hand sanding is fine as well just more like hard work.
The Jotun thinner 17 is xylene based so more oily like white spirit (which it's not) so will take longer to dry. Any remnants on the surface will be absorbed by the paint so I would use it if it's all you have.
Panel wipe is mostly IPA (not the beer) but it's not clear from the MSDS because they want to sell you "expensive" IPA.
It's not that expensive so I just buy it from the factors anyway.
Main thing with panel wipe (whatever flavour) is to use lots of cloth or paper and keep turning it so you are not just spreading the contamination around.

 

[Jim881]

If you have a da sander it will save a lot of work and give you a good finish for the primer. Hand sanding is fine as well just more like hard work.
The Jotun thinner 17 is xylene based so more oily like white spirit (which it's not) so will take longer to dry. Any remnants on the surface will be absorbed by the paint so I would use it if it's all you have.
Panel wipe is mostly IPA (not the beer) but it's not clear from the MSDS because they want to sell you "expensive" IPA.
It's not that expensive so I just buy it from the factors anyway.
Main thing with panel wipe (whatever flavour) is to use lots of cloth or paper and keep turning it so you are not just spreading the contamination around.

I can get the 3m roloc pads. I have some already. Would they work or does it need to be sandpaper.
I didn't think neat IPA wasn't great for panel prep?
I found this stuff. Can be had for 20 quid delivered.

 

[Ross365]

In this situation when you are working outside and in cold weather, IPA will absorb water from the atmosphere. The IPA will evaporate, but you could be left with some traces of condensation on the metal. I wouldn't do it.

 

[Burdekin]

I use Upol panel wipe and a final clean with methylated spirits/deionised water 50/50.